The younger fandom, and how they learned from exactly none of our mistakes.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Josh, Jan 6, 2020.

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  1. Overlord

    Overlord

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    I wonder how much of this apparent "everyone said SatAM was better!" is just American dominance of the early internet, the same way a lot of that country believes the crash of 1983 was worldwide when it was basically just them, and that the NES was the only 8-bit system with any serious amount of sales? =P
     
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  2. Pengi

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    Interesting stuff Xilla, thanks! What Twitter accounts do you get these listings from?

    Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog first aired on Channel 4 on Sunday 7th November 1993 (as advertised in Sonic the Comic #12, though as a letter in a later issue points out, they got the time wrong). They definitely aired them in production order at first (Super Special Sonic Search & Smash Squad, Subterranean Sonic, Lovesick Sonic, Slowwww Going, High Stakes Sonic), I'd recorded the initial run as a kid and those first few episodes are burned into my memory. I remember the switch to "Sonic the Hedgehog" happened suddenly and without warning one Sunday morning, as did the switch back to "Adventures of". I think The Big Breakfast only ever aired "Adventures of".

    The Thursday 29th September 1994 episode of The Big Breakfast (Chris Evans' last episode) aired a segment of "Tails Prevails". I believe each week split an episode into 5 segments, Monday to Friday?

    The "Sonic Says" segments were always cut from the Channel 4 airings, if I recall correctly. No idea if TCC, Pop, or any others used them.
     
  3. Childish

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    I don't really understand trying to prove that one is better than the other. I didn't grow up with any sonic cartoons at all but I really like the "Sonic with a darker theme" of SatAM. (I really hope that theme gets utilized in the games without becoming overly obnoxious and edgy *cough* *cough* Sonic Forces ) Sonic fans in my generation are to quick to assume that Sonic is a cringe worthy edge lord because..............? Most people of my generation had a wii or a 360 so there experiences of Sonic are Colours and Generations Right? yet these are the same people who say "gattagofastedgehahaaafunlol" It just baffles me. Post dark age sonic games are not that edgy. Why base opinions on your own experiences and tastes when some guy on the internet who lived through the adventure era and the dark ages has an opinion on a completely unrelated Sonic game.

    So yeah we learn from none of your mistakes and just bandwagon with your opinions. And thus we have condemned Sonic to another generation of shitty memes.:ohdear:
     
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  4. Xilla

    Xilla

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    Transdiffusion and russty_russ mainly.

    TCC did air the Sonic Says segments, I have a few episodes on tape from 1997 that has them, and POP showed them too. I did also have a Big Breakfast segment on tape at one point, from Psuedo Sonic.
     
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  5. Beltway

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    Considering how the "final" version was virtually identical to the Partnernet leak beyond two gimmick levels being swapped out, I don't blame him for forgetting it was delayed at all.

    "My suggestion would be to expect few to no physics changes, so that if or when you do notice any minor updates in the final game, you'll appreciate them."

    Besides that....

    It was only for roughly three months. A tentative Summer 2010 period to October 2010 isn't much of a big gap.

    On that note, I completely forgot that Sonic 4 was "officially" announced ten years ago last month.
     
  6. Blue Spikeball

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    Truth to be told, I found the "edginess" more obnoxious in SatAM, with the barren post-apocalyptic environments, the way Sonic and co were confined to a dull village in a generic-looking forest (at least for most of the first season; they visited other places in the second season... and nearly all of them had the same sterile post-apocalyptic look), the boring all-serious Robotnik, and the fact Robotnik's badniks were all replaced with samey Swatbots. At least Forces still had varied, rich and semi-surreal environments, the story still allowed Sonic to visit various different locales, there were still badniks, and Eggman... wasn't that great, but wasn't that different from previous titles like Lost World either. I blame those games for changing him for the worse, rather than Forces.

    Besides, weren't some of the edgy bits in Forces results of localization changes, like the forced lines about Sonic being tortured and Tails going insane?
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  7. Yes, that is the case. Sonic games almost always seem to get pretty rough localizations.
     
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  8. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    Disliking the post-apocalyptic setting is understandable, but Jim Cummings as Robotnik is anything but boring. He's probably the most endlessly entertaining thing in the series. He's cartoonishly evil, so I don't get how he's boring just because he isn't childishly goofy.

    The only in-game portrayal of Eggman to reach his level of menacing and entertaining was Deem Bristow in SA2.
     
  9. Blue Spikeball

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    I was thinking more about how his methods and creations were so no-nonsense and conservative (for lack of better term). Gone were the Egg Mobile, badniks (outside of the pilot, which featured some redesigned Buzzbombers), mechs, etc. You couldn't see him ever piloting something like the Death Egg Robot, or directly confronting Sonic in his latest contraption. Sonic fighting Swatbots got old fast for me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  10. 2 quid is good

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    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I'm probably much younger than you, but Pop! showed SatAM a whole lot in the early 00s, way more than AoStH. In fact I think it was even part of a block that showed the Super Mario cartoon and Captain N, and Pop was a free channel at the time too even if you did need to have freesat/sky/freeview and not an analogue aerial for it.

    They even showed sonic underground fairly regularly until about 2009/10. I don't have any promos to back me up, just what my own mind recalls so make of that what you will
     
  11. Vanishing Vision

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    I can't gel with any of the recent disdain for Colors in the slightest. I loved that game when it came out, and upon playing it again for the first time in a while recently, loved it just as much. It's the game that got me back into the series after dropping out around the time Secret Rings came out. Great level design with alternate routes that actually lead into distinct separate areas rather than just quick shortcuts from the main route, Wisps were fun to use and explore new areas with, and an honest attempt to make a balanced scoring system with the "Time's up" preventing exploits (to a certain degree). While Generations has even better level design, I really don't like that they dumbed the scoring system down strictly to "get to the end fast".

    Aesthetically, Colors is spectacular. Excellent music, some of the most creative and exciting level themes in the whole series (Outer space hotel resort, Feudal Japan underwater dome, Asteroid mining factory roller coaster), and the whole idea of everything being connecting as Eggman's park on different planets is great. I think the plot is great, too. Story-wise, Colors feels like it could've been the first 3D Sonic, like they just directly adapted the Genesis plots instead of all the strange stuff in SA1/2. Also great to finally see Sonic and Tails acting like actual best friends instead of Tails being a boring yes-man sidekick.

    I'll agree with the lack of 3D action being a setback, as well as some of the 2D action being a little too "blocky", but overall Colors remains a real favorite for me.
     
  12. Pengi

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    Sonic Colours had a thing where you could rack up free points just by doing a quick step, which was easily exploitable in the bosses. I don't know why they did that. If it was a bonus for quick-stepping to avoid a collision or a fall it would have been okay, but as it is, it just hands out points for performing a basic control function. Beyond that though, I like that they paid attention to the score and ranking system, but it doesn't come close to topping Sonic Adventure 2, which really set the gold standard for how the scoring system should work.
     
  13. Blue Spikeball

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    For me, Colors always came off as a dumbed down version of Unleashed's day-time levels. The levels were shorter and easier, had a lesser focus on speed and action, and there were too many 2d sections (Starlight Carnival was almost entirely 2d). Sonic's moveset was simplified and dumbed down; now you could only drift and quickstep in specific sections, for instance. Wisps just weren't that fun to use for me, although I admit they were better handled than in later games.

    Can't say I see where you're coming from. I don't remember any of the MD games having such a surreal plot as "Eggman builds an interstellar amusement park made up of planets and asteroids". I would label that as stranger than anything from SA1 or SA2.

    The stories in the classic games as told in the manuals dealt with Eggman's latest plot and some Chaos Emerald-related lore -- just like SA1. I mean, SA1 is pretty much a sequel to S3K, exploring and expanding the Angel Island lore introduced by this one. That's the 3d game I would call the closest to the classic games story-wise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  14. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Sonic Adventure is literally classic Sonic in 3D.
     
  15. Pengi

    Pengi

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    It isn't too far removed from Sonic CD or Chaotix. It's a good springboard for a new adventure and cool set pieces.

    The problem is that it all falls apart when it's revealed what Eggman's actual plan is - to use the Wisps to power a mind control ray and fire it at the planet. In that case, why the ruse about going straight? Why the amusement park? It would have made sense if the mind control ray was something he planned on using the amusement park's customers, if he was luring people into a trap.
     
  16. Dek Rollins

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    I think it's just as much removed from CD as it is the others. I also like that when he says "it isn't like any of the MD games" you respond with non-mainline games that weren't actually on the MD. :p
     
  17. BraveYujo

    BraveYujo

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    Even Sonic Colors, a game said to take place in "Sonic's world", doesn't make sense in the two world canon
    R.I.P. In spaghetti

    Now seriously, they attempted to get the children's attention with this game as well, hence the bad jokes and light-hearted plot.
     
  18. camcommunicates

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    There is definitely truth in this. I’m not even sure if SatAM was much of a thing here in Australia. On Saturdays (if it even aired then) most kids have sports or are doing outside activities. I do remember seeing it, but AoStH dominated. There were a lot of VHS copies of AoStH available too.

    Also, that’s a good point about the video game crash. I wasn’t alive then, but I don’t think Europe or Australia were affected at all, despite a lot of articles acting like video games could have ended right there. I couldn’t understand in the days of the early internet when lots of people were saying the Master System was not successful, and even SEGA in general to an extent. It was from my perspective. But like you mentioned it was probably the early dominance of Americans on the internet. Then again, I still see random videos or articles that are biased or imply American history happened everywhere. Maybe it’s not the dominance and is more of a cultural thing. Who knows?

    I guess it’s not great that over time the perception and history of SEGA/Sonic is mainly skewed to the American history, at least on the internet (in my experience). I think you could argue that if you took the USA out of it, SEGA would probably still be making consoles. SEGA and Sonic were huge in Australia and the UK, and must have sold well as despite distribution problems, the Master System, Mega Drive and Saturn were sold everywhere in Australia up until 97/98 (my memory could be wrong here). I don’t think SEGA would open a theme park in these areas if they didn’t have sales and confidence in the brand.

    For a while I’ve wanted to do proper research (instead of casual) and write a book about the history of Sonic or SEGA in Australia, but I’m not sure how much interest there would be.
     
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  19. Dek Rollins

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    Everybody experiences life differently. It sounds as if Americans are wrong to say things how they were to them. You guys and others outside of the US are saying what it was like for you, regardless of international appeal, and Americans will do the same. As an American who wasn't even born when these shows first aired, most of my exposure to popular opinion on these shows is online circa-2010.

    In relation to the other examples that were referenced, I can imagine that most Americans became more aware of international history by the time the internet matured, and more information was more readily available. Growing up with the internet (dial-up until '08 :p) I was never under the impression that those domestic American occurrences were worldwide happenings.
     
  20. camcommunicates

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    Oh of course they do and everyone is encouraged to talk about their experience. One of my favourite things to do is experience different cultures, so personally I love hearing it. I didn’t mean anything of what you said, so sorry if it came across that way.

    There is no problem with sharing your experiences, it just becomes a problem when people don’t state where they are referring to if it isn’t implied or known already, or speak in a way that implies it happened everywhere. The video game crash is a good example (and now SatAM since it’s been mentioned). I remember talking to gamers at uni that assumed it happened everywhere (as well as myself) because for a long time, that’s how the story was mainly written online. If it was specified from the very beginning that it was America only (maybe elsewhere, I’m not sure), then it wouldn’t be a problem. The same could be applied to a lot of SEGA stuff. On the surface level of the internet today for new gamers, it could look like the American history is the definite history of SEGA because there are more people reporting it as that and not saying where it’s specific to.

    I mean, I will always try and say where I am referring to if it’s not obvious because this is the internet. There are people from all over the world that could be reading. It just leads to a biased history when you aren’t specific, which is basically what I’m saying.
     
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