The younger fandom, and how they learned from exactly none of our mistakes.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Josh, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Josh

    Josh

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    In trying to explain WHY Sonic 4 was such a calamity to that younger crowd, I came up with this.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Pengi

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    Also, one level would have a neon sign saying "Sonic Runners 3" in the background.
     
  3. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

    TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    Sonic 4 was a calamity because it wasn't even meant to be, well, Sonic 4. It was originally going to be a mobile-exclusive game called Sonic the Portable, and only became Sonic 4 when Sega, for whatever reason, thought it'd be good enough to go multiplatform.
     
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  4. XRick

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    For real? First time I've heard of that...
     
  5. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

    TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    Yeah, we found out because the Ferris wheels in the background of Casino Street still say "SONIC THE PORTABLE" on them. Dimps tried to blur it out but it's still quite readable.
     
  6. XRick

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    And I also just found out Sonic06 suffered from a similar offense...
     
  7. Frostav

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    I think the blame also lies partially at non-Sonic fans who constantly complain about the series and demand it fit their tastes. Which is not good when the entire fucking gaming media also does this.

    I must bring up that when Mania Plus was first announced, I saw a non infrequent amount of "why are they introducing new Shitty Friends, mania was supposed to be one of the Good Ones?!" and and no amount of telling these people that Ray and Mighty were older than fucking Tails would convince them otherwise. When non-Sonic fans intentionally enforce this divide SEGA didn't have much of a choice.

    ...but then again I saw someone on Resetera say "Tails is the Original Shitty Friend" and that Sonic should only have the titular character and Robotnik and was ruined the moment Sonic 2 came out and really, what can you really do in that situation :V

    Sonic is about the only series I know where non-fans angrily demand it capitulate to their demands for some utterly inexplicable reason.
     
  8. Man, I remember being extremely hyped for Sonic 06 back when I was a kid. All the pre-release stuff they showed off and the marketing looked so cool, and to an extent, still does look cool to me today; especially that TGS Tech Demo, and the early teaser that had Sonic fighting off an army of robots before turning into Super Sonic. Good stuff. 06 turning out the way it did is still a very sore spot for me, and in a way, I kind of see it as the 'Sonic 4' of the Adventure games, only instead of calling it SA3, they tried to make it somewhat of a reboot of the whole series.

    I often wonder what the Sonic franchise would be like had 06 not turned out to be shit, and got better reception from fans and critics.
     
  9. Blue Spikeball

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    That's because the media is filled with bandwagoners who love to parrot what everyone seems to say, especially when they don't know anything about the subject. It makes them look knowledgeable in the eyes of the equally clueless masses. Non-fans saw Sonic fans complaining about Sonic's shitty friends, so now they do it themselves without understanding why fans did it. I remember such people demanding that Sonic was kept as the only playable character in Sonic 4, don't even add Tails or Knuckles, as if there was something inherently wrong with their gameplay in the 2d games.
     
  10. Yeah the main problem people had with Sonic's friends in the Adventure Era and 'Dark Ages' had more to do with terrible game design choices than anything else. Most folks don't want fishing, treasure hunting, mech shooting, weird Team gimmicks, and DMC/God of War style combat in Sonic games. :V

    I don't know why they can't just do what was done for other characters in the 2D games and just apply that to 3D; just have everyone play in a similar style, but give them unique moves that have them access alternate paths that others cannot. Heck, Heroes, Riders, 06, and even Black Knight of all games had some foundations that could make other characters work in 3D without tying them to some lame gimmicky alternate playstyle/genre. The way Sonic Team has handled the series after going 3rd party is honestly baffling.
     
  11. Frostav

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    A lot of SA1's decisions that haunted the series for a long while have to do with the time it came out in. Not really justifying it, but I can't really blame Sonic Team.

    The N64 and PS1 generation had just ended. Platformers were all about using the crazy new world of 3D for STUFF. It was all about having as much content as possible! Huge worlds! Tons of characters! DK64 having 5 million collectibles and tons of mechanics and [that voice Josh did in the Melee retrospective when he tilted the menu with the c-stick]S I X P L A Y A B L E C H A R A C T E R S[/]. SA1 was supposed to be this huge showcase of the next generation. Hub worlds! Six playable characters! Chao garden! An actual story that was...*barely suppressed laughter* more in-depth than what the previous generation did! SA1 had to be the Everything Game. And it had to do that while translating a style of platformer that basically was never done (a momentum-based physics platformer with complex multi-layered routes). Even Nintendo EAD would have had trouble getting Classic Sonic to transition to 3D perfectly--they didn't even try to do that with their own much simpler 2D Mario, instead absolutely completely altering SM64's style into a 3d collectathon!

    Like, after playing through SRB2 2.2 a lot of times, I don't envy Sonic Team. That game truly shows that an accurate translation of 2D Sonic into 3D would have been an absolutely monumental task. I don't think levels of Castle Eggman Zone Act 2 could even have been thought of on Dreamcast. Even the Windy Valley beta was already making the dreamcast weep.

    And once they chose their path, they stuck to it because why try anything else, I guess.
     
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  12. Bandana Dee

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    Hell, the Werehog segment would've been much more forgivable in Unleashed if they were Knuckles instead of the Werehog.

    Then it would've made much more sense
     
  13. JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    People keep saying this but I've never seen a story reason it could fit.
     
  14. Bandana Dee

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    It would've made more sense as in he's a preexisting character that isn't such a dumb concept.
     
  15. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    I gotta say that I only saw such "phenomenon" once I got online, which caught me by surprise. Offline, everybody I knew regarded AoSTH as the Sonic cartoon and in most cases hadn't even heard of the other one.

    I'd even venture to say that it would have actually worked better as an Awesome Possum cartoon. :V
     
  16. Xilla

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    When it came to SatAM in the UK, Channel 4 showed the first series with little fanfare halfway through the AoStH run, and I believe they didn't even show the second series at the time, although the first series did get a repeat run as part of a summer holiday slot in 96 IIRC, alongside Earthworm Jim and the Crystal Maze.

    TCC did end up showing the complete run but that was a cable/satellite station and even then, they would only show SatAM once a complete cycle of AoStH had aired.

    To be honest I think alot of people in the UK were only aware there was a second animated Sonic due to that StC poster mag!
     
  17. I was only vaguely aware of it way back when. Even as much smaller waste of space I preferred sleeping in on Saturdays above all else, including Sonic.
     
  18. Wildcat

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    I’ve seen the video posted on page 1 before. I guess I’m in a minority but I really don’t mind that things have gone more lighthearted or “for kids”. I’m sure it’s not going to stay that way because everything goes through different phases from time to time. Even in real life this happens.

    I totally agree with the OP. There’s no “true” Sonic. Even though I grew up with the Genesis and SatAM I’ve never felt that he changed into a different type of character at any time. I’ve always viewed him the same...heroic, adventurous, too cool, sometimes funny, sometimes serious...character.

    I honestly don’t get when people say he used to be really edgy. Some storylines were more serious than others but Sonic himself I think has remained consistent. Again like in real life...we don’t have 1 personality trait. We have a combination.

    As for gameplay I’ve never had any major issues with any era. As long as a game is fun and reasonably challenging I’m happy. I do have some complaints that are more specific to their games. Like I never really got into swapping character on the fly in Heroes. I don’t mind different gameplay styles but constantly switching is what annoyed me. Recently Forces was just too short. The difficulty seemed toned down too. Hope they continue the avatar feature with more options.
     
  19. Pengi

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    I don't suppose you have any old TV listings or anything hand? There's very little information about when each episode first broadcast in the UK. To make things more confusing, AOSTH also aired (episodes split up) on The Big Breakfast. I don't recall how they allocated these episodes, whether they were repeats of the Sunday episodes or first airings.
     
  20. Xilla

    Xilla

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    I am following a few Twitter accounts that upload old TV listings but unfortunately when it comes to early morning cartoons, the descriptions are a bit on the generic side.

    Here's the listings for November 1993 (Either the first or second episode)

    [​IMG]

    And on 4 September 1994, it appears Tails' Tale was shown.

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: The show got another re-run in a 6AM slot in December 1998 (very end of this clip):



    EDIT 2: Found this video on Twitter: Channel 4 billed SatAM as AoStH:

    https://twitter.com/DemonTomatoDave/status/1225201230705840130?s=19
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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