don't click here

The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. McGuirk

    McGuirk

    The Egg-Man Cometh. Member
    576
    0
    16
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Making a Full-Sized Egg Carrier in Minecraft.
    Alright, this time I have one that's actually interesting, stop me if it's common knowledge.

    The Egg Golem (Robotnik of Sandopolis) normally will crush you against the left wall if you don't kill it first. If you manage to avoid being crushed when it hits the well (such as by debug mode), Robotnik will backpedal at a slightly comical pace.

    Also, when the Robotnik nears the left wall, if you are standing near the right wall (where Robotnik begins), an enormous mass of the tiles that make up the Egg Golem will begin to creep forward from the right side of the screen in pace with Robotnik. I'm clueless as the the reason for this. The background doesn't move for this boss...
     
  2. Fred

    Fred

    Taking a break Oldbie
    1,563
    117
    43
    Portugal
    Sonic 3 Unlocked
    That boss uses level tiles to make up its large body, which would otherwise be unfeasible using only sprites. They can get away with this by using special scrolling effects on the background layer, just like the rising sand earlier in the level, and the similar sections in Lava Reef, Marble Garden, Hill Top, etc. This is also why the background isn't visible during this boss fight (it's occluded by the "interior" tiles in order to allow the special scrolling to work).
     
  3. McGuirk

    McGuirk

    The Egg-Man Cometh. Member
    576
    0
    16
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Making a Full-Sized Egg Carrier in Minecraft.
    That's actually pretty awesome. Methinks if I ever get some more free time I'm going to get into seeing how these games work.

    Also, where did you learn that from?
     
  4. Fred

    Fred

    Taking a break Oldbie
    1,563
    117
    43
    Portugal
    Sonic 3 Unlocked
    Simple intuition. I know how the Genesis works and what its limitations are, and the particular circumstances in which the boss takes place allows me to figure out which trick they used to make it happen.

    If the boss machine was made out of sprites, it would likely cause flickering due to the immense amount of sprites per horizontal line, Sonic included. Plus, a lot more sprites are created when you lose your rings, and I wouldn't be surprised if a section of the boss simply became invisible in such a circumstance (not to mention the likely large amount of slowdown which would take place). The fact that they deliberately hide the background from view the entire time tells me that they're using the background layer for something other than the background, and these two facts lead me to the obvious conclusion: the background layer is instead being used to draw the boss, eliminating the sprite limit problem.
     
  5. McGuirk

    McGuirk

    The Egg-Man Cometh. Member
    576
    0
    16
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Making a Full-Sized Egg Carrier in Minecraft.
    I just removed the tiles blocking the view in ESE, and the BG changes into the body tiles of the boss a little ways down from the last horizontal timed door (right past the checkpoint). My hat is off to you!
     
  6. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

    Researcher
    1,392
    455
    63
    I could've sworn I posted this before, oh well...

    This might be something for heavy debate, as I'm not even sure what it is either.

    But anyway, there's a leftover in Sonic Jam (PAL) (and only this version) that hints that something being dubbed the title "Sonic 4". Yeah, look:

    (btw before you lash out, I know AGES is referring to the line of old game ports to the Saturn.)

    D:\AGES\SONIC4\cable.asm
    D:\AGES\loader\ccnvmacr.inc
    D:\AGES\SONIC4\equ.lib
    D:\AGES\loader\equ.inc
    D:\AGES\sonic4\soundequ.lib
    D:\AGES\sonic4\y_equ.lib
    D:\AGES\sonic4\vramequ.lib
    D:\AGES\sonic4\devequ.lib
    D:\AGES\sonic4\corequ.lib
    D:\AGES\SONIC4\macro.lib
    D:\AGES\loader\macro.inc

    Okay so...

    I don't make a heavy stretch on this one, but to me, there's really no way to put it. I think the Sonic World engine was being used for another game that Sonic Team was developing for the Saturn - Sonic the Hedgehog 4. The loader directory is referring to the, well - game loader which allows you to load the games featured in the collection. Sonic4 on the other hand...well, you know what I think it is. I know that you'd think that it was referring to Sonic & Knuckles or something, or that there's a Sonic1/2/3 folder as well within that same directory. But that wouldn't make sense, because those games would have to be in the loader directory since they're being programmed for the loader to use.

    But make of it as you will. Heh. :P
     
  7. Polygon Jim

    Polygon Jim

    Eternal Tech Member
    0
    3
    0
    across town from Hinchy
    All the bitches.

    It;s Sonic and Knuckles. I've hacked it before. The final game has S&K named Sonic4
     
  8. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

    Researcher
    1,392
    455
    63
    Did you get that from those file extensions in the folders (SN1/SN2/S2K/SN3/SN4)? I guess I can agree with you on that. These strings did come in one of the _DAT####.BIN files, and this was below the previous strings:

    ......#....ring_vram............?...&..D.'....specply0_vram............?...W..q.&....dai0020_vram......@.....?......!.'....zone0b20_vram............?........'....zone0c10_vram............?........"....gole_dev

    gole = goal, dai = big (no idea) but the zone stuff, hm.

    But then again, those are the only directories and files listed. So where's SONIC1/2/3? Hm...
     
  9. Polygon Jim

    Polygon Jim

    Eternal Tech Member
    0
    3
    0
    across town from Hinchy
    All the bitches.

    I know S1/2 share the same folder, and S3/K share folders as well. I'm pretty sure that's just the old compile directory and has nothing to do with anything beyond that.
     
  10. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    no reverse gear Wiki Sysop
    8,609
    2,485
    93
    Northumberland, UK
    steamboat wiki
    "quik" cameo for you

    Came across this public domain Amiga title from 1991.
    [​IMG]
    It goes by the name of "Quik and Silva", and it's a fairly basic platformer. The music was done by Chris Hülsbeck of Turrican fame.
    [​IMG]
    many of the enemies in the game are from other games such as Bubble Bobble or Nebulus
    [​IMG]
    but also Sonic.

    This also showed up on the Atari ST.
     
  11. Skyler

    Skyler

    Neonネオン Cowgirlカウガール Site Staff
    3,287
    32
    28
    Hellafornia
    The next audtion
    Woah, that's cool. How late in 1991 was this released?
     
  12. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    no reverse gear Wiki Sysop
    8,609
    2,485
    93
    Northumberland, UK
    steamboat wiki
    No idea, though I'm guessing after the release of Sonic 1. The credits say 1991 but when the magazines of the day got a hold of it it was late 1992.
     
  13. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    1,740
    21
    18
    Location Location
    AeStHete
    I follow LiQuidShade on Twitter (LiQuidShadeZ0), and I was quite surprised by this tweet:

    Here's the video in question:



    I certainly did NOT know about this brilliant little bit of design. Who knew that the pushable rock from Angel Island was imparting a valuable lesson for how to find hidden goodies in future zones?

    This is also cool because I've always felt there was a shortage of Warp Rings in FBZ.

    Is anybody else surprised by this minor revelation?
     
  14. STHX

    STHX

    SEGAAAAAAAAA?!? Member
    1,809
    3
    18
    The world of Trophies
    Sonic In Mushroom Kingdom
    All these year, and this game still suprises me.

    Never stop being so awesome S3K.
     
  15. Fred

    Fred

    Taking a break Oldbie
    1,563
    117
    43
    Portugal
    Sonic 3 Unlocked
    AAAGH THAT HORRIBLE GENS SINE WAVE JUMP SOUND

    Is this seriously new to you? There are at least two little spike objects you can push in the stage, I think one in FBZ1 and the other in FBZ2?.. Not sure, but they're painfully obvious to spot out.
     
  16. They're easy to spot if you know what you're looking for. Only those two spike groups are pushable.
     
  17. I came. <3 S3K
     
  18. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    19,239
    972
    93
    Long-term happiness
    Yeah, I've known about the pushable spikes for years - iirc I was just running along the stage and dodging something, ran into the side of the spikes and didn't let go immediately - and it moves. =P
     
  19. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    Member
    5,903
    822
    93
    I found out there were pushable spikes back when I was still little. Until SCC came out and I decided to take a look at some level maps, I was never sure just how many there were and would also push every individual set there was.
     
  20. Fred

    Fred

    Taking a break Oldbie
    1,563
    117
    43
    Portugal
    Sonic 3 Unlocked
    Single 32x32 spike blocks with nothing to their sides, so you can push them in one direction without being hurt where you're standing.

    Like I said, painfully obvious.