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The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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  2. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Now you just gotta do Sonic 1. :V
     
  3. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Oh there's a whole bunch, but Mike Hayes is currently only manually credited with Sonic 2 ;)
     
  4. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    A friend shared this. Thought it was worth posting here.
    image.png
     
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  5. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I believe fans' common complaint about the characterizations in the Pontac/Graff games isn't that they characters were outright derailed, but that they were flanderized. As in, that they had their traits and quirks exaggerated. Sonic is supposed to be cocky, Tails is supposed to be his friend, Eggman is supposed to be silly. So they wrote Sonic super cocky and sarcastic, made Tails into a snarky bro to Sonic, and wrote Eggman even goofier than in prior games.

    So yeah, the traits came from Sega/Sonic Team. It's the implementation that came from Pontac and Graff. Sega had a similar hands-on approach with Ian Flynn's comic book stories (especially post-reboot), and the characters had the same basic traits in them, but they weren't written so over the top. Sonic was cocky, but he wasn't cracking jokes every minute. Tails was his friend, but wasn't a sarcastic dude making jabs at his bro. Eggman was still silly and eccentric, but not to the point it completely overshadowed his other traits.
     
  6. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    With all due respect, I think you just missed the entire point of what Graff said. They wrote the games like that because Sega MANDATED it lol
     
  7. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I didn't miss anything. I'm just interpreting his tweet differently from you based on the evidence.

    Sega and the character bible mentioned mandated that Sonic be cocky, Eggman be silly and such. But how cocky and silly they were would have come from Pontac and Graff.

    If Sega had mandated that they were written so over the top, it would have demanded the same from contemporary comics. We know they were closely supervised by Sega around that time, and that Sega was aiming for brand consistency. That's one of the reasons the Archie reboot was more game-centric, and was why Ian had to talk Sega into letting him keep the Freedom Fighters.

    That's not to say that Pontac and Graff had much freedom. Obviously Sega went through everything they wrote, made/demanded alterations, and approved the final scripts. But the difference in characterizations between the games and the contemporary comics would have come from the two medias having different writers.

    I'd also like to bring up that Sega did give the writers some freedom. As stated, the Freedom Fighters were in the Archie reboot because Ian insisted on it. And Orbot and Cubot weren't going to return in Lost World, as Sega felt it would be out of character for Eggman to have that kind of relationship with his creations, but Pontac talked Sega into keeping them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2024
  8. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    Screenshot 2024-01-18 085613.png

    This is delving dangerously close to off topic so feel free to trash, but in that same thread it's stated that Ian's creativity was moderated by Sega and I really have a hard time believing that for the Archie days. Frontiers, yeah, sure. I doubt they'd even care at what he wrote in the Encyclo-speed-ia, just that Dark Horse got the license and that meant it was good to go.
     
  9. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    We do know that Sega had a tight grip on the comic during Ian's tenure from Ian's account. He stated that he would always get notes from Sega saying things like "it's not in Sonic's character to act this emotional" or "the game characters can't have relatives that don't exist in the games".

    So yeah, he was closely supervised by Sega, just like Pontac and Graff.
     
  10. shilz

    shilz

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    Archie Sonic STILL managed to be pretty a pretty different character from how SEGA's Sonic is intended to be, even during their strictest note-giving days, because they still give a pretty loose grip on the characters when all is said and done.
    I don't hold it against Ken and Warren and I'm sure there's definitely parts that they would have written different without any notes but the thing is they were still given enough freedom to the point Sonic Team just rewrites everything to make it even more in line with how they think the franchise should be. They can't push EVERYTHING annoying they ever wrote onto SEGA just like Ian can't push EVERYTHING annoying he writes on SEGA, because they're actually doing their exact jobs even if they're objectively wrong with their writing.
     
  11. I remember reading through some old Japanese magazine scans, and I ended up stumbling across an old piece of fanart based on the 1990 Tokyo Toy Show demo. I don't remember the name of the magazine nor the issue number. I think the magazine's name was Sega-related in some sort of way. I'm trying to find it right now since it may be the earliest piece of Sonic fan-art.

    Edit: I found it. (Page 56)
    Screenshot_20240118_203615_Drive.jpg

    Considering the flowers and the magazine's date. This seems to be based on both the Tokyo demo and later builds of the game.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2024
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  12. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    I know the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Happy Meal boxes were posted here a while back - something else related has now surfaced, an eBay listing for an in-store display stand used to promote the Happy Meal collaboration and showcase the toys, which includes unique artwork of Angel Island Zone not seen on the boxes themselves.

    Interestingly, the background depicted in the artwork is a dead ringer for the Tropical Sun Zone concept art from Sonic the Hedgehog 2's development, showing the exact same rock formation with a waterfall cascading out from the mouth of a cave. Actually, even the style of the grass and the ground patterning/colouring match the concept art pretty well, too! I've heard it speculated that this concept may have been reused for Angel Island Zone before, but this is very compelling evidence that this not only could have been the case, but that the concept art may actually have been provided to the designers of this McDonald's stand as a visual reference.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2024
  13. Ch1pper

    Ch1pper

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    I'm not seeing a "dead ringer". Strikingly similar, yes, but that's the nature of art. A dead ringer would be a hill and palm trees appearing in the same areas on the display stand as they appear in the concept art. Both are ultimately just kind of generic island scenes.
     
  14. Londinium

    Londinium

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    So, the mohawk design has been haunting us forever?
     
  15. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    I just find it really, really hard to believe I guess, especially if the source is Ian themselves.
     
  16. McAleeCh

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    Really? I think it seems fairly significant that the far background looks so similar to the concept art, especially as it doesn't resemble anything actually seen in Angel Island Zone's background in-game. I'm not saying the piece as a whole is identical or anything, but I thought the similarity in that background was notable at least, especially as we know concept art from the previous game was reused for this one.
     
  17. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    Dead ringer, maybe not, but it can't be said that it's not interesting... The rock formations, colour palette, and even the grass in the display are far closer to the concept art than anything shown in the final AIZ.
     
  18. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I mean, the comic itself corroborates Ian's account. "Mandates" reported by him like "no made up relatives for game characters" are consistent with the stories of that time.

    Also, I'm pretty sure Ian's account was corroborated by the artist(s) as well. They were closely supervised by Sega too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2024
  19. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    I find it a little hard to believe the relatively minor spin-off comic with a niche audience had the same level of oversight from Sonic Team as multiple major mainline games that they made themselves and came up with the stories for
     
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  20. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Obviously Sega/Sonic Team didn't have such a tight grip on the comic's plots and lore. But they watched up close the handling of the game characters. Pretty much all the "mandates" reported by Ian were about that. Panels even had to be redrawn when Sega felt they didn't do the characters justice. You can look it up, it's documented in various places on the web.

    Edit: Found a post listing a few for you:
    https://greenyvertekins.tumblr.com/...listing-various-sega-mandates-made-for-archie

    Not a comprehensive list, just a few mandates Vertekins remembered at the time. There were many more, but you would have to go through all Ask Ian sessions to catalogue all known ones.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2024