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The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Yes it can be
     
  2. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Let's try:
    Sonic 3 as Sonic: AIZ1, AIZ2, HCZ1, HCZ2, MGZ1, MGZ2, CNZ1, CNZ2, ICZ1, ICZ2, LBZ1, LBZ2 = 12
    Sonic 3 as Tails: AIZ1, AIZ2, HCZ1, HCZ2, MGZ1, MGZ2, CNZ1, CNZ2, ICZ1, ICZ2, LBZ1, LBZ2 = 12
    Sonic & Knuckles as Sonic: MHZ1, MHZ2, FBZ1, FBZ2, SZ1, SZ2, LRZ1, LRZ2, LRZ boss, HPZ, SSZ, DEZ1, DEZ2, DEZ boss, DDZ = 15
    Sonic & Knuckles as Knuckles: MHZ1, MHZ2, FBZ1, FBZ2, SZ1, SZ2, LRZ1, LRZ2, HPZ, SSZ = 10
    Sonic 3 & Knuckles as Sonic: AIZ1, AIZ2, HCZ1, HCZ2, MGZ1, MGZ2, CNZ1, CNZ2, ICZ1, ICZ2, LBZ1, LBZ2, MHZ1, MHZ2, FBZ1, FBZ2, SZ1, SZ2, LRZ1, LRZ2, LRZ boss, HPZ, SSZ, DEZ1, DEZ2, DEZ boss, DDZ = 27
    Sonic 3 & Knuckles as Tails: AIZ1, AIZ2, HCZ1, HCZ2, MGZ1, MGZ2, CNZ1, CNZ2, ICZ1, ICZ2, LBZ1, LBZ2, MHZ1, MHZ2, FBZ1, FBZ2, SZ1, SZ2, LRZ1, LRZ2, LRZ boss, HPZ, SSZ, DEZ1, DEZ2, DEZ boss = 26
    Sonic 3 & Knuckles as Knuckles: AIZ1, AIZ2, HCZ1, HCZ2, MGZ1, MGZ2, CNZ1, CNZ2, ICZ1, ICZ2, LBZ1, LBZ2, MHZ1, MHZ2, FBZ1, FBZ2, SZ1, SZ2, LRZ1, LRZ2, HPZ, SSZ = 22

    Total: 124 - "over 120"

    You don't even need to include the special stages, you just have to be creative with what counts as a distinct level.
     
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  3. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    upload_2023-11-2_10-58-20.png upload_2023-11-2_10-58-39.png
     
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  4. Pirate Dragon

    Pirate Dragon

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    FX wasn't too happy with Sega not not supplying review copies of Sonic 2 for them, which is understandable as they were the first mainstream media in the UK to regularly cover Sega going back to mid-1990 when they were known as Buzz! Computers. They probably weren't too worried about burning bridges with Sega as they had already lost their teletext franchise and were getting replaced in a months time by a different company who introduced Digitiser.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Chimes

    Chimes

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    How dare you not give us our new fix of Sonic, we're the ones giving you the most money!
     
  6. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    There was a fan tour SoJ had where they showed off some concept/production art.

    Source
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    [​IMG]

    Source
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Source
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Trying to see if more people took photos of the event, so far it only seems to be CD/Superstars related.
     
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  7. Chimes

    Chimes

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    Oh, that's Junio's genga! Nice to see we have more photos of CD's production material.
    Now if only someone here can list the animators who drew those specific ones. I know Itiro Huruiti did the scene with Metal Sonic
     
  8. YuTwo

    YuTwo

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    I went through the hashtag “#ソニックFMT” to see if there were more photos others had taken and it does not seem like there was any more material on display. Though I did find that someone took such a great picture of that one sheet that has both Sonic and Amy
    http://web.archive.org/web/20231106...m/media/F-Oef-2bQAAiY2o?format=jpg&name=large

    https://twitter.com/Sonic_mania_/status/1721393759521472867

    https://archive.ph/DjObK
    I’ve been doing a lot of research on the Sonic CD animations and here is what I know.

    Ichiro Furuichi did do the Stardust Speedway segment:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20180905222148/https:/twitter.com/eguchi_1203/status/1036998214648356865

    Hisashi Eguchi did the segments of Collision Chaos, Wacky Workbench, and the alleged R2 Zone:
    私はOPの前半(後半は小丸敏之君)とEDのクワガタとカマキリとカブトムシの原画も遣ってます!水上走りのカットはカメラワークがうるさくて失敗したな〰と思ってます。
    https://web.archive.org/web/20180228042148/https://twitter.com/eguchi_1203/status/963394996693958656
    Translation via DeepL:
    I also did the original drawings for the first half of the OP (the second half is by Toshiyuki Komaru) and the stag beetle, praying mantis, and rhinoceros beetle in the ED! I think the cut of the water running was a failure because the camera work was too noisy.

    In that post he said he did the ending animation involving the parts where he just mentions insects. Those insects being the badniks involved. With a little research I found which ones they are.

    The stag beetle is the unnamed antlion badnik belonging to R2:
    https://info.sonicretro.org/R2_Badnik_2

    The praying mantis is the Kama-Kama badnik:
    https://info.sonicretro.org/Kama-Kama

    The rhinoceros beetle is the Mecha-Bu badnik:
    https://info.sonicretro.org/Mecha-Bu

    Here is another now deleted, but luckily I archived, tweet where he mentions the scenes he was involved with:
    https://twitter.com/eguchi_1203/status/1311671878205890561

    https://archive.vn/GVhn4

    Eguchi had posted credits for the ending animation before but they were rather vague:
    https://web.archive.org/web/2019053...er.com/eguchi_1203/status/1103378861994127360

    I decided to ask him myself for specific credits for the rest of the ending and he actually answered:
    C−1〜6【梶原賢二】、C−7〜11【清水保行】、C−14【古市一郎】、C−16【清水保行】です。※エフェクトは全カット修正してます。
    C-1 〜 6 [Kenji Kajiwara], C-7 〜 11 [Yasuyuki Shimizu], C-14 [Ichiro Furuichi], and C-16 [Yasuyuki Shimizu].
    ※All effects have been corrected in all cuts.

    https://twitter.com/eguchi_1203/status/1721792804941386217

    https://archive.ph/oKUHo

    *C means Cut. They are essentially a way to say whenever there is a camera/scene change.

    And if you want to know about the exact credits for opening then Eguchi did the first 10 cuts and then Toshiyuki Komaru did the other last 10 cuts since there are 20 cuts in total.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2019042...er.com/eguchi_1203/status/1103306111271108608

    https://twitter.com/eguchi_1203/status/1240622761652834305

    https://archive.vn/Kdy0Y

    EDIT (NOVEMBER 10):
    I have also asked Eguchi who did the 2 short clips from the bad and good ending that are accompanied by the text of "Try Again" and "You're Too Cool" and he answered that he did both.
    https://twitter.com/zedm256/status/1722285880465932729

    https://archive.ph/JsGlz

    https://twitter.com/eguchi_1203/status/1722774179555279153

    https://archive.li/OBAWc
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2023
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  9. Devon

    Devon

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    So, people know that in the Nick Arcade prototype of Sonic 2, Green Hill Zone has broken collision. This is due to the game using a different set of collision blocks that Green Hill is not compatible with. I've seen people throw around that the cause was due to stage layout or chunk format changes. The thing is that collision happens on the 16x16px blocks that make up the chunks, which was only really updated to handle 2 sets of solid setting bits for the path swapping mechanism instead of 1, so the way collision detection works is more or less the same as in Sonic 1. Again, just an incompatible set of collision blocks.

    Perhaps lesser known is that the original Sonic 1 collision block data remains in the ROM, and there does exist Game Genie codes to make the collision functions use that instead. But, did you know there's a dummied out function in the game that was meant to pick between the Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 collision blocks, depending on if it was in Green Hill Zone or not? Check it out, it's found at ROM address 0x13024.
    Code (Text):
    1. SetCollisionBlocks:
    2.         rts                                             ; This rts makes the function immediately exit out
    3.  
    4.         lea     ColArray1_S1,a1                         ; Use Sonic 1 collision block heights
    5.         tst.b   Current_Zone                            ; Are we in Green Hill Zone?
    6.         beq.s   .StartBlockSet                          ; If so, branch
    7.         lea     ColArray1_S2,a1                         ; If not, use Sonic 2 collision block heights
    8.  
    9. .StartBlockSet:
    10.         lea     ColArray1_S2,a2                         ; Overwrite collision block height area
    11.         move.w  #$1000/2-1,d1                           ; $1000 bytes total
    12.  
    13. .SetHeights:
    14.         move.w  (a1)+,(a2)+                             ; Set collision block height data
    15.         dbf     d1,.SetHeights                          ; Loop until finished
    16.  
    17.         ; a1 now points to the collision width data
    18.         ; after their associated collision height data
    19.  
    20.         lea     ColArray2_S2,a2                         ; Overwrite collision block width area
    21.         move.w  #$1000/2-1,d1                           ; $1000 bytes total
    22.  
    23. .SetWidths:
    24.         move.w  (a1)+,(a2)+                             ; Set collision block width data
    25.         dbf     d1,.SetWidths                           ; Loop until finished
    26.  
    27.         lea     AngleMap_S1,a1                          ; Use Sonic 1 collision block angles
    28.         tst.b   Current_Zone                            ; Are we in Green Hill Zone?
    29.         beq.s   .StartAngleSet                          ; If so, branch
    30.         lea     AngleMap_S2,a1                          ; If not, use Sonic 2 collision block angles
    31.  
    32. .StartAngleSet:
    33.         lea     AngleMap_S2,a2                          ; Overwrite collision block height area
    34.         move.w  #$100/2-1,d1                            ; $100 bytes total
    35.  
    36. .SetAngles:
    37.         move.w  (a1)+,(a2)+                             ; Overwrite collision block angle area
    38.         dbf     d1,.SetAngles                           ; Loop until finished
    39.         rts                                             ; Exit out of function

    This does get called when a stage is initialized, but with it being dummied out, it doesn't do anything at all. It wouldn't have worked with a normal ROM chip anyways since it's designed to overwrite cartridge area data. Nevertheless, it's still a fun fact to know that they did account for it, and probably worked on whatever development hardware they had... it's just nonfunctional in this specific build.

    Also, here's a visualization of the broken collision in Green Hill Zone.

     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2023
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  10. Chimes

    Chimes

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    oh my god those s curves

    The_Masterpiece_174.png
     
  11. Devon

    Devon

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    I mean, the loop is literally the hole in that sculpture.
     
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  12. doc eggfan

    doc eggfan

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  13. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Okay guys, in North America I got Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Rush on the same day (alongside Viewtiful Joe: Red Hot Rumble, DDR: Mario Mix, Viewtiful Joe: Double Trouble, and Mario Kart DS). Our wiki says it came out on November 16th (Amazon link source).

    Are there any credible sources out there that say the 15th (besides Wikipedia)? Find them for me if so.
     
  14. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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  15. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    I guess it would depend on which dates. Pirate Dragon has already shown us that even Sega themselves can have wrong dates.
     
  16. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    It does appear that Nintendo and Sega can have different views on when games were released, but some of our numbers weren't referenced at all so I've fixed some of that.

    I don't trust Amazon on finer details like this - they might be shipping the day before so that you receive the game on launch date. I've also found that with older titles, when they don't have a release day, the default behaviour is to use the 1st of the month (or indeed 1st of the year in some cases).


    I got into the habit (after seeing someone else do it) of "hiding" alternative dates and prices in <!-- html comments -->, when you can't say for sure if a game launched at $49.99 or $49.95. Probably should do that for both sets of dates until we have more sources to favour one over the other. But that's more work.
     
  17. Pirate Dragon

    Pirate Dragon

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    Probably ship date (ie date shipped from publisher to retailers distribution) versus actual retail release date which generally occurred a day or so later. It was more common in the US for publishers to just give a ship date instead of having a fixed retail release date like in Japan/Europe. Sega's press releases do specify they "shipped" on the 15th. Usually I look to EB Games for this as they specify the shipping date in the "coming soon" section, and the actual released date in the "new releases" section which is where you can generally see a day or so discrepency, but they weren't archived at this time. Amazon should be OK for US release dates as mentioned above publishers usually didn't bother with fixed street dates. The more common issue with using retailers for dates is they sometimes don't update the page when the date slips, so I try to use multiple retailers where possible, but that's more of an issue with Europe.

    Edit: I guess for Amazon they could probably ship it to customers the same day they receive it, but consumers still won't get it until the next day. For Europe it's a bit different as they could send it out a day or two early in order to arrive on the street date.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2023
  18. Forte

    Forte

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    By any chance, would it be possible to ask him, anything R2 related? Like idea for the animation, background work, etc.?
     
  19. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

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    I didn't know about of few of these signpost oddities until I watched this video the other day. Since I haven't seen it linked here yet, I'd thought I would share it here with everyone.
     
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  20. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

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    Sonic 2: Archives