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Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    Let's talk Sonic 1, maps, and prototypes.

    If you look at Sonic the Hedgehog (16-bit)/Maps, you'll notice that File:Sonic1 MD Map MZ blocks.png ends with four 16x16 blocks with null graphics. These are hooked up to use VRAM tiles $2EA through $2F1, which are unused in the final game but contained the UFO graphics in the prototype we have. Okay, so they clearly put a low amount of effort into removing those graphics when the time came.

    Spring Yard Zone, aka the level formerly known as Sparkling Zone. Apparently, the way the background chunks are laid out differs between REV00 and REV01... but not between the prototype and REV00. Effectively, this means that REV00 is using Sparkling Zone's data, and REV01 now has two chunks ($3C and $3D) unused.

    Finally, Star Light Zone. This one has the dubious distinction of having all of its background chunks duplicated, as the result of the developers leaving everything past what was being used alone. What I am about to type is the impetus for writing all of this. Take a look at File:Sonic1 MD Map SLZ blocks.png, if it helps you follow along.

    There are several chunks in the final game that have the general design of loops: $2A, $2B, and $36 all take a simple loop-de-loop form, while $34, $35, $40, and $51 all take the form of a loop that sends you running down a wall. The game places $2A and $34 in the layouts themselves, albeit as $AA and $B4 so that the game knows to swap their collision with $2B and $35, respectively. So what exactly are $36, $40, and $51? Are they used, or has no one bothered to list them on The Cutting Room Floor?

    In the prototype we have, chunk $35 acts as $2A and $36 as $2B. So that's one leftover so far. Meanwhile, the equivalents for $34 and $35 are $28 and $50. Chunk $40 differs between the prototype and final versions... I have no idea what happened there. But because $28 and $50 are not adjacent to each other, there's code that makes it so that if $28 is accessed when it's a loop tile, it'll flip over to $50's collision... even in the final game, where chunk $28 contains a couple of slopes. I can tell you this much, though: the only chunk that actually really sees use past $35 is $3F. And because Star Light Zone has the most chunks (chunk $52 would be blank if not for the odd X-flip flag applied to a blank tile...???), every other zone has to reserve space for $52 chunks. What a waste...
     
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  2. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Update to this: chocolate-filled variety too. That one uses a couple of cookies of the mini variety and puts chocolate in the middle, so there's no need to have additional pictures of them, but, since it's a different box, I'll have to buy one too, and I haven't finished eating the first two yet. :doge:
     
  3. ELS

    ELS

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    Is Sonic a vegetarian? I swear I read somewhere he is.
     
  4. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Nah, I'm pretty sure he only “saves" all of those small animals to use in his secret chilli dog recipe.
     
  5. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

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    Of course not. The chili dog thing has been accepted into the actual continuity, Naka has made the comment about Sonic and friends probably liking McDonald’s, and there hasn’t been any statement in canon media that he doesn’t eat meat. Real hedgehogs aren’t even vegetarian so it doesn’t make much sense to make Sonic one.
     
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  6. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Just strange how Sonic saves the little pigs that inevitably might become his chili dog.

    “Don’t worry lil pig I’ll save you from being a robot battery… gettin kinda hungry though sorry you’re gonna be a hot dog”
     
  7. charcoal

    charcoal

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    Going by the layer names in the Frontiers key art, the "Seagull" that's faster than Sonic everyone was talking about wasn't a Seagull, it was an Albatross. (Source)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And considering the existence of Storm the Albatross from Sonic Riders, this implies both anthro and non-anthro versions of animals exist. So I'd assume Sonic's chili dogs are made out of non-anthro animals, which is actually a decent explanation for this age-old problem. Still kinda weird but it's better than Sonic grilling up the animals he saves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
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  8. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    If you maybe wanted to use a less obscure example... SA2 has realistic bats, small animal bats and Rouge the Bat. There are other small animals like rabbits (the Adventure versions, not Pocky) and swallows that would later be used as species for regular anthro characters. Pretty sure that there are other examples of this too.
     
  9. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Flickies have existed since before Sonic and the Rouges since 2005. Even Archie gave an explanation in its canon.
     
  10. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    I've always considered the Sonic series to have 3 or 4 different kinds of animals, not that it really matters. Firstly you've got the anthros like Sonic himself. Then there's the small animals, like Flickies and the rest from the Classic games. They're possibly distinct from the small animals you see in the Adventure (except the small family of Flickies), Advance and Rush games which are just referred to by regular animal names and more like real animals shrunk down. And finally there's just the blatantly realistic animals, like Pele the Beloved Dog.

    Pretty sure it out just comes down to artstyle evolution over the years, especially regarding the two different types of small animals. The realistic animals have only ever really been used as set dressings in the more realistic games. The only thing that's ever stood out as particularly odd to me in any of the games is the giant snake in Forces, because IIRC there are aren't any other non-anthro animals in that game, and it already had Lost World's giant sandworm things.

    But yeah, it's just always struck me as weird regarding how there are so many different meanings for the word "animal" when talking about Sonic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
  11. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Anthro animals, cartoon animals and real animals. Makes enough sense, or else ask Mickey about Goofy and Pluto.

    I'm ok with Sonic eating "real" chili dogs, I wouldn't if he ate tofu chili dogs.
     
  12. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    The first thing Mickey Mouse ever said was "hot dogs!", and in 1929 you didn't have vegetarian options.

    ... although just checking the footage he never actually eats one, although he does stab them with forks and offer one to Minnie.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway burgers were on the menu for Sonic's birthday surprise in Generations. Also why am I researching this
     
  13. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

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    Am I blind? Where are the burgers? I just see hot dogs, cookies, and cupcakes.
     
  14. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    [​IMG]

    bloody sonic games sandwiching darker biscuits between lighter ones so they look like burgers
     
  15. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

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    Haha. I figured that was what you were referring to. Definitely a sweet-heavy celebration. Cake, cookies, cupcakes, but only hot dogs? Hot dogs and burgers would have made sense.
     
  16. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    A mystery for someone to solve:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    There are two US prints of Sonic and the Black Knight. The second disc has more colour.

    There are also two prints of Sonic and the Secret Rings. And Sonic Unleashed (on Wii). Do we know why?
     
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  17. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Could be bug fixes. In Black Knight's case maybe they removed fan art that people were telling them was stolen?
     
  18. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    The pattern of the 1st disc gives me Sonic 3 gumball bonus stage vibes although I know they were trying to mix the Sonic aesthetic with Celtic patterns, just sorta ended up that way lol
     
  19. MykonosFan

    MykonosFan

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    This seemed like the best place to ask.

    The Sonic Fandom wiki has this claim on the Biolizard page.
    [​IMG]
    Specifically, about his cries being heard in the background of The Doom level. If you don't recall offhand, it's the one where you're either with Maria on the ARK saving 10 researchers, killing 60 GUN agents for Black Doom, or just reaching the goal ring. I went through this level for quite a stretch of time and never heard it, and I also poked David the Lurker if he knew anything about this, which prompted him to play the level and reach the same conclusion.

    So I figured it's worth checking here real quick. Has anyone concretely heard this for themselves? Is there any video online where it can be experienced? It'd be a really neat touch if it's true, but I'm afraid that it's not. I tried to open an account with Fandom to ask on that page's Discussion page, but it was having a captcha issue or something.
     
  20. BlueSkiesAM2

    BlueSkiesAM2

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    I played relatively recently and didn’t hear anything but I was also trying to get it over with as quickly as possible. Is it possible for someone to check in the actual files of the game?