The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Pengi


    In the Mega Drive version Unidus is red and Uni Uni is green.

    In the Game Gear version Unidus is red and Uni Uni is pink.

    Mega Drive:

    Game Gear:
  2. Swifthom


    A Friend Remembers... Member
    Two things to share

    Firstly, was looking at box art, and realised that the UK S&K box art back cover on the Sonic Retro wiki page (Sonic & Knuckles ( is more a photo than a scan (File:Sk md uk cover.jpg - Sonic Retro)
    It's a bit battered and bruised - curse the stupid idea whoever had of making it a cardboard box rather than a normal one - but here's a scan I took this morning if its an improvement?

    Also - in non official but I think is kinda cool news - an annecdote for you all - how many of you have heard of this:
    Sonic The Hedgehog | A Cosmic Kids Yoga Adventure! - YouTube

    My sons at nursery, and when he came back after the initial UK lockdown last march he suddenly knew what Sonic was, and became obsessed with him. I introduced him to the Sonic Boom series on netflix and we've been watching one episode every few days together since the summer - have finished the first series already. He has never seen a sonic video game as far as I know, and i tend not to play console games when they are awake any more. But the Sonic obsession had been growing - he runs around the house screaming 'I am Sonic' - and then, after he learnt the game 'whats the time Mr Wolf' he started running up and down the stairs screaming 'I am Sonic Wolf'. I showed him a photo of the werehog from unleashed and it blew his mind!

    But where, I wondered had this obsession come from? Another kid at nursery whose parents have got a 3 year old into Sonic early?

    No. It turns out, the nursery has a scheme (a scheme recommended on national early years teaching forums - this isn't just local this is national) where they get the kids to join in online yoga sessions. August 6th it was Sonic Cosmic Yoga and... wow. I always wondered if I would (even briefly) be able to share my childhood interests - this has taken off, and apparently he's not the only kid at the nursery who saw this yoga, immediately went home and got their parents to dig out the Sonic Movie Blu Ray because they 'love Sonic'.

    As I said - not official - but the idea that the brand is 'this' pervasive still blows my mind. :thumbsup:

    EDIT: I take it back - it is 'officially' sponsored by Paramount, and might be removed from the internet (already should have been) - apparently :)
  3. McAleeCh


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  4. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
    It is indeed - "Upload a new version of this file"
  5. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
    This is what happens when I can't edit Sega Retro:

    I've tracked down release dates for almost every Sonic Archie between 2006-2009 and 2014-2016. Though I'm starting to doubt myself, because the company lists "ship", "direct sale" and "newsstand sale" dates (except for when it just lists one) - I went with the earliest "on sale" date because that seemed sensible, but maybe we want all three (we're tracking minor variants after all). There's a five year gap because I got bored - I don't actually like Archie comics, and given the lack of information on the wiki, I think that's a common opinion.

    I'm not going to pretend it's a world I understand - the timeline seems to be "inaccurate -> atrocious -> blatant fanservice" with it becoming more redeemable by the end, but I'm losing brain cells hanging around the Archie ecosphere. Even though they were publishing Sonic comics since 1992, that series is a footnote to Archie Andrews and his punchable friends - it's no wonder it became about furry love triangles when the flagship title has been "Love Triangle: The Comic" since 1941. The Archie Comics website was written in Comic Sans MS for years, most of its images were hosted on Photobucket, and yet simultanously was the world's biggest English-language comics publisher for a time.

    There is a massive task here to extract all the work-in-progress placeholder art. I've uploaded "scans" for 95% of the covers, but we're nowhere on the digital side of things and there are still huge gaps in our knowledge.


    There are highlights though.
  6. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Whoa. I had never seen that. I'm assuming that scene is meant to tie in with the Japanese storyline, which mentions Eggman creating a "Dark Ring". It also looks like it might have inspired that similar scene from the Sonic 3D Blast MD intro.
  7. JaxTH


    Pudding Deity Oldbie
    Los Angeles
    Jack shit.
    I've saved the video. Someone should archive that YouTube link, though.
  8. Pengi


    Just to make things more difficult, it seems there were also several bundles of old comics. Some more info here on the Sonic Stadium forum.

    "Super Adventure Packs" contain a complete 3-issue mini-series, while "Collector's Packs" have two unrelated issues and"Super Collector's Packs" have two unrelated "special" (usually 48 page) issues. Breaking that format is this Collector's Pack that contained the complete original Sonic mini-series #0, 1, 2, 3.

    Apparently they were sold at places like Toys R Us.



    More here:

    Looking through Google and eBay I've confirmed the existence of:

    Super Adventure Pack
    Tails 1, 2, 3
    Princess Sally 1, 2, 3
    Sonic's Friendly Nemesis Knuckles 1, 2, 3

    Collector's Pack
    Sonic 36 and 31
    Sonic 31 and 23
    Sonic 22 and Princess Sally 2
    Sonic Quest 1 and 3
    Sonic 37 and 28

    Sonic Mini-Series 0, 1, 2, 3

    Special Collector's Pack
    Sonic & Knuckles and Super Sonic vs Hyper Knuckles
    Super Special 3 (Sonic Firsts) and ???

    Sonic Super Special 2 (Brave New World) and ????
    ??? and Super Special 3 (Sonic Firsts)

    Those last two (green) may actually be the front and back of the same pack. (Images from dead auctions.)
  9. Gestalt


    Sphinx in Chains Member
    Tidbit time! Did you know that both Yuji Naka and Naoto Ohshima once were guests in an Iwata Asks interview for Wii Play: Motion? Prope/Naka contributed the mini-game Trigger Twist, Arzest/Ohshima Jump Park, Cone Zone and Spooky Search.

    Here's the part where they talk about Sonic:
    Naka: I'm Yuji Naka from Prope(21). We were in charge of the minigame Trigger Twist. We actually had proposed something different, but we lost in competition only to crawl our way back up in the consolation round and make this minigame, so I couldn't be happier. This was our first time to work with Nintendo, so I'm glad to have formed this relationship.
    21. PROPE Corporation: A video game developer based in Minato Ward, Tokyo.

    Ohshima: I'm Naoto Ohshima from Arzest(22). Our company was founded about the time this project took off. We were in charge of the minigames Jump Park, Cone Zone and Spooky Search.

    Naka-san just talked about the consolation round, but our Spooky Search and their idea were alike, so we were lucky to get ours approved. When I heard that later, I was like "Wow!" (laughs) I was surprised that we would think of the same kind of game.
    22. ARZEST Corporation: A video game developer based in Yokohama, Kanagawa.

    Iwata: You and Naka-san worked together on Sonic the Hedgehog(23), so you share roots when it comes to coming up with ideas.
    23. Sonic the Hedgehog: The first game in the Sonic series released in July 1991. Mr. Naoto Oshima designed the characters and Mr. Yuji Naka programmed it.

    Takahashi: I'm Shinya Takahashi from ...
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  10. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
    It's the stuff of nightmares - I think Archie occasionally re-released issues almost on a whim, sometimes years after the original prints, and I don't know if there's an easy way of identifying the later variants (unless those are them).
  11. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
    Against my better judgement I pushed forward to Sonic the Hedgehog 220 (Archie). In early 2011 Archie's site got a redesign, and much of it hasn't been archived. This means, as the current iteration only has records going back to 2014, someone will have to go digging for the dates for #221-#258... on top of the first ten years worth of issues. And the missing spin-off dates. And the collections.

    My condolences.
  12. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
  13. cornholio857


    The Great Cornholio Member
    Jacksonville, FL
    In search of TP
    I bought this Collector's Pack at Toys R Us around 1996-ish. From what I can remember they don't have Reprint on them. But then again, I have them in a Sonic and Knuckles or Sega Sports shoebox that I haven't opened in like two years LOL.
  14. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
    In unrelated news:

    Retromags scanned us some Winter CES 1995 coverage of Chaotix. There wasn't much going on at Winter CES that year - Sega and Nintendo showed up, but held back their big announcements for the first ever E3. Chaotix was one of the only big Sega games on the show floor, and even then reporting was (quite rightly) geared towards the Sega Saturn. Meanwhile Nintendo were bigging up the Virtual Boy as the greatest thing ever - it's not a show people like to remember.

    As this event took place between the 6th and 10th January 1995, the 1229 prototype is a likely candidate as the build on show. Our old screenshots seem to confirm this - it might not have been the first build ever previewed in a magazine, but I'm guessing it was the first that could be "seen" (and played?) by the press.

    I was going to document this in more detail, having taken a stab at the older 1207 prototype many moons ago. Unfortunately between 1207 and 1229 lies the 1227 build, which doesn't like Kega Fusion and I'm not sure I care enough to go hunting for alternatives right now. In fact, what little of 1227 did work was testing my patience - the title screen animations animate slightly differently when the console is swapped between US and Japan (which in turn are different to the final game). I use the emulator's "advance by frame" feature to get the prettiest screenshots, but you can't line anything up!
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  15. Level Zone Act

    Level Zone Act

    Tank Girl/Sonic connection: some of the post-Hewlett Tank Girl comics featured former Sonic the Comic artists Mick (Mike) McMahon and Andy Pritchett, and letterer Ellie De Ville. (And possibly others?)

    I always thought of Pritchett's STC art as relatively cute and gentle compared to the other artists (he used a lot of soft pastel colours), so it was a surprise when I learned he'd drawn something as edgy as Tank Girl!
  16. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
    Helps if you're not running a hacked ROM:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Presenting: The History of the World (Entrance)
    1207 1227 1229/0111 0119 Final

    They were playing around with effects in Chaotix until quite late in development. Twice they thought about adding a spinning sign, and twice they removed it.

    I've never seen any good documentation of Chaotix - it's a very complex and busy game with lots of strange ideas that you can easily miss, so I definitely don't expect to see these prototypes covered any time soon.
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  17. Prototype


    Especially given the weird emulation issues and need for specific emulator revisions to even run them. It's hard to document, as things never seem to line up exactly.

    I've messed around with the Chaotix protos in the past and found that in some of them, object layouts load completely differently or don't load at all. So you're never certain if Special Stage rings loading into solid walls is just severe emulation error or evidence of earlier object layouts.

    It's a fascinating game from all perspectives, but it's understandable why they didn't want Sonic as the headliner, given it's obvious unfinished and empty status.

    It would be fascinating to talk to the developers, because you can see that there could have been something great there.

    Deadlines and international multiconsole arguments don't lead to a good game however.

    I feel like it was driven mainly by the passion behind cool momentum coding, but weirdly hampered by it's need to conform to Sonic tropes.

    The only thing it had going for it in the end was the nice graphics, which was really just a 32x showcase. Exemplified by the gratuitous sprite enlargement that added nothing to gameplay.

    Honestly, I would love 32x remasters of the earlier games, with all the palette shifting glory.

    I still think that, if there's ever anything approaching a Mania 2, they should crib more graphical elements from Chaotix, and do more with the day-night cycle and internal clock.

    Still, to bring it back to your original point, it would be nice to map out the differences once and for all. There's still so much mostly undiscovered stuff in those protos, like the early "NUTS" character name, which only shows up at random when the game decides to boot you into a certain screen, which supports my earlier point about never being sure what's intentional and what's a bug in those prototypes, almost as if what you see in that game is a sort of Schrodinger type deal.

    Really though, I think my holy grail proto find would be a ROM between the earliest known Chaotix proto and Crackers.

    I'm fascinated to see if they ever developed those field stages further, and whether or not they were intended as sort of map screens, or whether it was just to see whether they could also implement the rubber band physics in a vaguely isometric/top-down perspective.
  18. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
    IIRC the last time Kega Fusion was updated was specifically to get the earlier Chaotix prototypes working. There was a special "Chaotix version" of the emulator for a while (because nothing could run these prototypes in 2008), but I think it all got rolled into version 3.64, which can boot every ROM without help.

    Problem is, Kega Fusion 3.64 is ten years old and isn't as stable as it could be on modern operating systems. Sometimes you have to reset the emulator a few times for the earlier Chaotix prototypes to even boot (like it's emulating poor contacts or dust - true accuracy!) - I don't know what to blame for that, but equally, I don't know if any other emulators even get that far.
  19. Prototype


    I heard a theory some years back that the dumped ROMs themselves suffered from "Bit Rot" but I don't know if that's an accurate description or what that would even entail, or how it would make itself known, but I presume it's something like the carts themselves being a bit rusty on the connectors or circuits and therefore never dumping cleanly, but I've never really dumped a ROM so I don't know how accurate that idea is.

    I'd be thrilled if somebody ever figured out just what circumstances cause the 1207 proto to boot into a beta Results Screen, because the elements of it (like the name NUTS) are seemingly entirely graphical and don't seem to have any corresponding text strings. So it was likely a placeholder, but it's existence makes me wonder just how much other hidden data exists in the ROM that is undiscovered.

    Perhaps if someone can identify what compression method was used for those graphics, it would be possible to find further pre-1207 graphical data.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  20. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    this is what KLF is about Wiki Sysop
    I'm not sure how the saving system works in the 1207 prototype of Chaotix, but my guess is "not well".
    Load a save slot and the score overflows. And flashes red.

    Fun fact: Botanic Base at night has rainbow waterfalls. You know, that feature Sonic CD was apparently going to have for the fabled R2 level.

    Isolated Island (1), Botanic Base (2)... meh.

    Fun fact 2: The "hit the bumper thing to select a level" screen behaves differently depending on the time of day. It's slower in the morning than at night, and the sunset version is randomised. So if you want to pick a level, your best bet is to get up early.
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