The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Vertekins

    Vertekins

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    Just translating whatever Japanese Sonic info I find that intrigues me. Also, working on Concept Mobius.
    I took a gander at the JP Chaotix manual on a whim and there's some fairly interesting info in it about Metal Sonic, Amazing Arena and Techno Tower.

    According to this;

    [​IMG]

    Dr Eggman recovered both Metal’s main and sub CPU’s after he was destroyed in a fight with Sonic (This is most likely a reference to the Stardust Speedway race in CD). Which if true means that Chaotix!Metal Sonic still has the “mind” of CD!Metal Sonic. They were placed into a spare fuselage and reborn with Dark Ring Power. His construction now includes a Plasma Plasner, allowing him to use the Plasma Pulse attack (For the record, this is what MS will do to you if you stand idle in a stage for too long).

    [​IMG]

    Amazing Arena is described as a Fun House, you know, the sort of Fun Houses you often see at fairs. It uses time and video projections. The video theme seems to be carried across to one of the unnamed Badniks. Specifically the camera tripod badnik that does nothing but scuttle about.

    [​IMG]

    Techno Tower is considered to be the symbol of Newtrogic High Zone. It has a purpose in that it is actually a place where light energy is gathered. This is pure speculation but knowing this info, perhaps the reason why Newtrogic High Zone has such vivid lighting on the title screen is due to Techno Tower's purpose in gathering light energy - It probably repurposes it to make the place glow beautifully;

    [​IMG]

    This may also explain why there's so much machinery in the area where the boss is fought;

    [​IMG]

    It's all there to collect the light energy. The boss even uses white lasers (Light?) to attack.

    I dunno, I just love the detail the developers put into some zones, how they give them a specific purpose.
     
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  2. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    There's probably quite a bit in the Japanese Chaotix manual that hasn't been translated properly - that black text on the blue/cyan background is a real challenge for OCR programs.
     
  3. Swifthom

    Swifthom

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    I see that the UK Egmont Fleeway Sonic the Comic magazine suitable fodder to be added to the scoring system - but there are no scans. I would be happy so supply come if they are wanted.

    I'd point out that the dataset is still small enough that a single rogue result can change your mean substantially. The scores for the main games actually rolls out a bit like this (from Imgur), and they show that Sonic 3 is the most 'consistent' high scoring title of the lot:

    [​IMG]

    I would note that most (but not all) of the scores in low 80s and 70s for Sonic 3 and Knuckles are coming after 1996, when the mega drive was hanging on to compete with the Playstation et al, and they are generally reviews 'looking back' at the game from a few years later asking if it still holds up. So - an in the moment response to the brand getting tired in 1994 - they don't quite represent.

    However of most interest is that very one rogue datapoint below 50, which intrigued me. it IS from November 1994, so its contemporary. The magazine is french and named CD Consoles - so.... Not sure why they are focusing on Sonic 3 and Knucles as it's not a CD game but hey hoh. They seem to be doing a Mega Drive roundup in celebration of the announcement of the Saturn which will be a CD system.

    As I said - with only 20 ish datapoints, one rogue entry can alter the final score more than it should so I read the article. My French is rusty as heck so maybe some can do a better job but the meaning I intuit from the review opening and closing statements are:

    Now... This is weird. It does not read like a low scoring review...
    They rate the game 3 for creativity, and 3 for Playability, 2 for graphics, 2 for (son?????) and 2 for potential.
    These are out of 5 but I would point out they define the scores a 0 for decevant (dissapointing), 1 for moyen (????), 2 for bon (good), 3 for tres bon (very good), 4 for au sommet (at the top) and 5 for exceptional.
    So - whilst the game has averaged just under 2.5 out of 5 - this in their mind is not a bad game... In fact, reading through the issue, I see hardly anything that warrants 4 stars throughout.

    Later, on page 160, they do a review roundup where 11 people apply scores to all the games in the issue. To explain their scoring system:

    Sonic and Knuckles gets six 0 scores, two 1 scores, two 2 scores and one 3 score. If i have interpreted the scoring system that means... This game is not for this crowd at all. :rolleyes:

    But that antipathy to none CD level games combined with a scoring system that rarely gives out high scores does make this magazine a little different to other scoring systems where 45% would be considered an unplayable disaster. For these guys its actually quite good, just not for them.


    Does this matter? Well, no, and if we had a higher database of scores it certainly wouldn't, but it and the scores submitted after 1996 do drag Sonic and Knuckles down (just a bit) in a way the other games aren't. Remove them and the gap between S&K and Sonic 3 will shorten significantly (a gap between 88 and 91 for it and Sonic 2).

    And looking at the other low scoring reviews they all say 'the game is short' and then regard the lock on tech as an added extra. They are definitively NOT reviewing Sonic 3 and Knuckles as we would consider it today, they are reviewing Sonic and Knuckles as a standalone product whilst acknowledging it has added benefits.


    My point is - I think it's Sonic 3D where the franchise starts to show its weaknesses and the journalists really took note.


    EDIT:
    Just to provide my statistics, using the whole dataset:

    Sonic 1 - Mean 92, Std Dev 7
    Sonic 2 - Mean 92 Std Dev 7
    Sonic 3 - Mean 91, Std Dev 5
    Sonic and Knuckles - Mean 85, Std Dev 11
    Sonic 3D - Mean 79, Std Dev 13

    If we cut the above discussed removals out:
    Sonic and Knuckles - Mean 88, Std Dev 7.

    Statistically the difference between the scores for Sonic and Knuckles and any of the preceding games are not significantly different (whether you use all the scores or just the contemporary ones) - whereas Sonic 3D 100% is.
    HOWEVER - this is a small dataset and the data doesn't come from a scientifically sound method so... pinch of caution with the whole thing.

    I've mainly done this to avoid doing a different job and playing around with statistics is a bit of stress release - the data is NOT ROBUST enough to be quoted outside of here and just provided for discussion. And also please don't quote me on the translations either - i'm rusty as hell and relied on google translate for some words or phrases I struggled with.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
  4. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    We absolutely do want Sonic the Comic scans. There's a set on the net, but they're low resolution, the covers are watermarked and everything deemed "unimportant" wasn't included (mainly ads and reprints... but we want those).
     
  5. Pengi

    Pengi

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    A lot (all?) of the double-page pinups were excluded from those scans too. And the free gifts. And the poster side of the Poster Mags - would anyone have a scanner big enough to do a decent job with those?
     
  6. Vertekins

    Vertekins

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    Just translating whatever Japanese Sonic info I find that intrigues me. Also, working on Concept Mobius.
    The other descriptions for Speed Slider and Marina Madness say nothing of particular interest but Botanic Base's description states that the botanical garden is dome-shaped and that it's a shadow of its former self due to plant overgrowth. This explains why the later acts of this zone have fountains that are overgrown with the fountain the the far background (That has a colour-change effect when entered at night) having such plant overgrowth smothering it that it won't light-up anymore nor does water flow from it;

    [​IMG]

    ^ Both the large fountain in the BG (Behind the Zakku Badnik) and the smaller fountain on the same plane as the player characters are completely smothered in plants in one of the later BBZ acts.

    Also, the JP description states that there is a terrace on the outside of the dome, hints at it being a shortcut to the goal. I guess that those linear areas that you enter through doors is this terrace.
     
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  7. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    Sorry if this isn't quite the right place to post this, but I have a question: if you get all the Emeralds in the S3 half of S3K and then choose not to go into the MHZ Giant Ring, do you get to keep your Super form?
     
  8. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    No. Once they're the Super Emeralds, you lose the Super Form and need to recollect them to gain the Hyper Form. You only "retain" it in Doomsday Zone, where Sonic turns Super if you have all seven Chaos Emeralds, but less Super Emeralds.
     
  9. Fred

    Fred

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    Did you actually read what they asked, or just the last four words?

    If you avoid the first ring in MHZ, you keep the Chaos Emeralds and your Super form. Alternatively, if you enter the ring with no emeralds, you can then collect them all in the S&K half of the game and keep the Super form that way.

    Otherwise, if you enter the ring with at least one Chaos Emerald, it will be converted and you won't be able to go Super even if you collect the remaining Chaos Emeralds. The "all emeralds" message changes from "Now X can be Super X" to "Now X can go to Hidden Palace", and entering the next ring will do just that, converting the remaining emeralds in the process.
     
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  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I misread the "choose not to go in" as "choose to go in". My apologies, I'm running low on sleep.
     
  11. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

    happy! :D Member
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    Okay, got it. Thanks for the answer!
     
  12. Swifthom

    Swifthom

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    If it weren't for the pandemic I would be able to retirieve the boxes from the attic in my parents house.

    As soon as travel restrictions are lifted will pop over and see how many issues I can retrieve. The early ones I don't have (I was young, I cut them up and made collages out of them) but I'm pretty sure I have the full run from 50 to 100 at least.

    Or I did when I last checked ten years ago...
     
  13. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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  14. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    The concepts depicted in the post were known for a long while already.
    Even Eggman's concept prior to Modern look.
     
  15. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Is it the whole book front to back with nothing missing?
     
  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    No, but there is a Perfect Guide for £10 on eBay (+£11.50 p&p) if the wiki needs it.
     
  17. I just read that Sonic Genesis for the GBA was developed using the Sonic Advance engine. Is this accurate? If it is, I think that may help explain why it's such a horrendous port.
     
  18. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    I have no idea why that rumor has stayed so popular when Advance plays decently and Genesis barely functions. Pretty sure they had a couple college interns bang out Genesis in two days and paid them with pizza or something.
     
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  19. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    The more recent idea I've heard is that Sonic Genesis is just the Java version of Sonic 1, and the GBA can barely handle it. There's no evidence for it using the Advance engine though.
     
  20. Fred

    Fred

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    Okay, I'll bite. How?