The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Good point. The first Sonic 1 commercial only said "Sonic the Hedgehog". Do we have any way of knowing when the second version aired?

    The whole exchange wouldn't make sense if the entirety of what he said was conjecture. The skinny is that there was some kind of legal issue, he wasn't aware of the full details, and Sega were maybe being overcautious.

    In the interview, that was the first thing he said about the game, unprompted. There's really no reason not to believe him.

    Did Sega have many console-to-arcade ports in the '80s? The only one I can think of is Champion Boxing (Yoshiki Kawasaki said that the SG-1000 version was developed first, but the arcade version may have been released first).

    In general, Sega's console-born IPs didn't make the leap to arcades, so it was a pretty big deal when Sonic did.
     
  2. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Possibly:

    https://retrocdn.net/Category:Beep!_Mega_Drive_scans

    Beep! MegaDrive had a monthly column about advertising, although if you look hard enough, they'll also probably provide the answer as to why it became "SegaSonic" for a bit.
     
  3. Gryson

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    For many years, most people accepted that the name "Genesis" came about because of a trademark claim on Mega Drive in North America (see here) until David Rosen himself shot this down in Collected Works, saying it had nothing to do with a trademark dispute but rather that he just preferred the name "Genesis" and insisted on using it to signify a new beginning.

    The point is, it's entirely possible that Manabu Kusunoki is telling the truth as he understood it at the time. He was a graphic designer on the game in question, though, which probably did not put him in a position to really know what was going on. That's pretty clear from the language of uncertainty that he uses. It's absolutely possible that a poor Japanese-to-English translation can erase a sense of speculation, which is indicated in very different ways in the languages (or, 25 years of time can also have that effect on the memory).

    Anyway, there are some things that have to be resolved to work with what he's saying:

    1) Sonic the Hedgehog CD came out right around the same time as SegaSonic the Hedgehog, but it didn't require a name change.

    2) The term "SegaSonic the Hedgehog" was used in marketing of Sonic 1, implying that it was a marketing decision rather than a trademark issue (it would be ridiculous to say that the company couldn't use the title of its game in its marketing, despite still selling the game under that name).

    3) Just about all Sonic toys and merchandise going back to 1991 use SegaSonic branding.

    Maybe there was an issue with the trademark on merchandising that didn't affect the video games, and they simply changed the arcade game name to match the merchandising that was filling their arcades at the time? We'd need more info to determine that.

    But I'd say it's jumping the gun to conclude that the term 'SegaSonic' came about due to a trademark dispute. I'm by no means rejecting it, though.

    Edit: Here's the cover of the "Marugoto Sonic Fan Book" published Sept. 1993. Note the usage of both titles:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    They're not even consistent on the SegaSonic arcade machine:

    https://info.sonicretro.org/File:Segasonic_instructions.jpg

    SegaSonic the Hedgehog
    ソニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ
    (Sonic the Hedgehog)

    Also

    [​IMG]
    Here's a telephone card. That Sonic Team logo didn't exist before NiGHTS in 1996, but I think this card is more likely from 1997 (and maybe even 1998?).
     
  5. Gryson

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    Here're some watches from 1992:

    [​IMG]

    Notice the package for the one on the left is SegaSonic, but the watch itself is just Sonic. Presumably, if they changed this for trademark dispute reasons, they wouldn't continue to sell previously branded merchandise.

    I've always assumed they just rebranded to better associate Sega with the Sonic merchandise...
     
  6. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    I always thought it was something to show the relationship between the company and the product.

    Kind of like "Walt Disney's Mickey Mouse" or "Disney: Beauty and the Beast" etc etc.

    I talk to a lot of Sonic collectors from Japan and they all call him SegaSonic too which I think it's neat.
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    That was explained a few posts back and it makes a lot of sense:

     
  8. Gryson

    Gryson

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    It's certainly a possibility, but it doesn't explain that last pic I posted of the watch showing both logos. Here's another pic of the watch:

    [​IMG]

    So both SegaSonic and plain Sonic branding are on the same watch. That really doesn't make sense if there was a trademark dispute.

    It's also a mystery what other product there might have been a dispute with.
     
  9. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    If the trademark dispute was about toys, everything still stands.
     
  10. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    My guess is that "Segasonic" is closer to "Supersonic", which is a word more likely to be used in Japanese day-to-day conversations?
     
  11. Gryson

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    I think I've solved the mystery! It turned out to be quite interesting, so I'm going to do a write up on my site. Stay tuned... (and yes, it involved a trademark dispute).
     
  12. Modern

    Modern

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    Don't think anyone's brought this up before, but the background in Metallic Madness zone Act 2 gets cut off slightly:[​IMG]
     
  13. Asagoth

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    wiki stuff... and a beer... or two... or more...
  14. Gryson

    Gryson

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  15. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Pssst, over here.
     
  16. Prototype

    Prototype

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    Fascinating writeup re: SegaSonic. Nice to have it put so concisely. First time I've ever really seen an in-depth discussion of it.

    So, I know Mania got a good reception in the west, especially compared to Forces, but does anyone know (be it through sales figures or just anecdotal evidence) how the games performed individually in Japan? I've heard Sonic games aren't really a big seller in Japan, so it's interesting to me to see if there was any notable difference in reception over there. I know that Forces got a ridiculous Hooters promotion of all things, but was Mania marketed at all in Japan?
     
  17. Modern

    Modern

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    muchos gracias
     
  18. Asagoth

    Asagoth

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    I didn't know this database ... it's way better than this one... it gave me more results than the other one ... thanks for sharing :)/>/>/> ... this helps a lot ...

    Edit: So Sega first filed a trademark application for Segasonic on December 11th, 1991, one day after Taito filed one for its game ... interesting...
     
  19. big smile

    big smile

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    @Gryson Excellent write up! It's great to know what was behind the Sega Sonic name. So Sonic Blastman isn't a Sonic game? My understanding of the series has been ruined.
     
  20. Gryson

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    It was a year and a day after - Sonic Blast Man was Dec 10, 1990, and SegaSonic was Dec 11, 1991. Taito also re-filed for Sonic Blast Man in mid-1992, this time without a claim to the word "Sonic".

    That site is great, but unfortunately it doesn't allow linking, so it's hard to direct people to specific pages.

    Thanks!