The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. Pengi

    Pengi

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    It's been pointed out that there was a tiny Chaotix Super Sonic sprite used as decoration on the old Sonic Team site: http://web.archive.org/web/19970311132947im_/http://www.sega.co.jp:80/nights/sonic/gif/ssonic.gif

    The Wiki says "An animated sprite of an unused Super Sonic. Colors are incorrect and fan-made, no known palette in the game matches".

    Unfortunately, the Sonic Team website version is of poor quality and reduced in size, so it's not an ideal reference for what it was supposed to look like.

    The positioning of his arm and hand looks different too.
     
  2. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Reset your password and make sure you're using the https version of the wiki.
     
  3. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    WHAAAAT? Which page linked to that pic? So those are the real colors that would have been used in Chaotix!

    Yeah, the wiki has it attached to Sonic's hip...
     
  4. Blue Spikeball

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    https://web.archive.org/web/19970216103838/http://www.sega.co.jp/nights/sonic/newe.html

    Also note the Crackers-esque palette on the sprite at the bottom.
     
  5. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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  6. Fred

    Fred

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    It's been way too long to recall correctly, but I believe the arm was separate from the body, and there was also an alternate one with a clenched fist facing forward.

    That "Crackers-esque" palette is actually what Sonic looked like through most of Sonic 1's development, before he was darkened at the last moment to improve contrast against the ocean backgrounds. These are presumably the same colors as the ones in Sonic Eraser, which was developed around the same time.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    I made scans of the Sonic Ova Japanese covers for both the rental and sale versions.

    The tapes are there too but both versions have the same look and say the same thing.

    https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1vS6l_MowDibru39XJrZZ7D854aFJSar-
     
  8. Windii

    Windii

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    Thanks! These scans helped me finally learn the exact release dates of the rental volumes thanks to their catalog numbers. Volume 1 came out on January 26, 1996 and volume 2 came out on March 22, 1996. This has been bugging me for years and I'm glad I have definite proof now.
     
  9. Prototype

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    It's interesting looking at that Sonic Team website. You can actually go back and look at some of the other stuff on that site, including downloadable .gifs (which appear to be lighter than the Sonic Eraser sprites), and a Sonic folder icon for the PC. Now, I'm not sure if it's due to compression but the folder icon's Sonic head seems to be based on the Sonic 2 sprite, however, as you can see around the edges and in places like the nose, it contains more colours than the Sonic 2 sprite. Could it have been from a point between Crackers and Chaotix?

    Original size
    [​IMG]

    Enlarged for clarity
    [​IMG]

    Comparison with Sonic 2
    [​IMG]


    In any case, it's fascinating to me that there was never any representation or continuation of the Sonic 3 sprites. Almost as if they preferred the S1-esque look with the more angular eyes. Certainly this style carried over to Sonic Mania, which is interesting given it's technically a sequel to Sonic 3. Whose decision was it to use this style rather than the S3 style in Mania?

    By the way, has anyone archived all the assets from that site? There are some neat wallpapers I haven't seen before with an early 3D rendered Sonic. I mean, they're 256 colour bitmaps, but still.
     
  10. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    It's an edit of one of the walking frames, not the standing one.

    It's been touched up a little, but I think it's mainly to optimise it for the 256 colour palette on offer. I wouldn't read much into it.



    And yes most things on that site should be mirrored on our wikis.
     
  11. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    [​IMG]

    No but really, did you expect these merchandising people to go out an play Sonic 2 up until Oil Ocean Zone? That's silly - you just take one of the press screenshots instead.

    specifically, this one:
    https://info.sonicretro.org/File:GD_Sonic2_OOZ_2.jpg



    Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Italian children wore the Simon Wai Sonic 2 prototype to school. Take your weird ball switch on the bus.
     
  12. Prototype

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    I have a question that isn't really worth a thread. I figure here's the best place to post it. What was the deal with early Sonic stuff in Japan being named "SegaSonic"? Were they that intent on marketing the company name with the product, was it just weird translation stuff, or was it simply because there was a legal mess in Japan simply marketing something as "Sonic" or "Sonic The Hedgehog"?

    I've never seen an answer to this.
     
  13. Pengi

    Pengi

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    The original set of UFO Catcher plush dolls (released July 1991) had "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG" branding, but later versions had "SEGASONIC THE HEDGEHOG" branding. The tag design was otherwise identical, which suggests it was done for a legal concern, rather than just a design refresh.

    [​IMG]

    ^ Both versions are in this photo. A consequence of the change is dead white space between Sonic's feet and the logo.

    The change happened sometime in 1991, as the larger Sonic plush sold in stores has a "SEGASONIC" tag and a 1991 copyright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79v70iJaLT4

    Manabu Kusunoki talked about the situation a little whilst discussing the SegaSonic the Hedgehog arcade game in "The Untold History of Japanese Game Developeres Volume 3".

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    There's something weird about this - the "SegaSonic" name does start showing up later in 1991:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZw7gjy8P0A

    but I've never seen it attached to Sonic 2 or Sonic CD... even though all the arcade games from that period use it. In fact it even turns up in merchandise as late as 1994.


    So if it is a genuine legal issue... Sega must not have seen it as much of an issue.


    (of course that advert uses an extract of "Merrily We Roll Along" from 1935... and I bet Warner Bros. has its hands all over that these days)
     
  15. Prototype

    Prototype

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    I wonder if the "SegaSonic" branding hurt the brand's performance in Japan overall? I mean, it adds confusion as to what the character was even called, and certainly is a bit more of a mouthful. Did it result in a lack of brand cohesion?

    Also, regarding the sales figures. Has there been any publication of the Forces sales vs. the Mania sales? Or would that reflect badly and cause some degree of shame for the Japanese developers? I imagine it's easier to just say "Sonic's doing well!" and not acknowledge that the game series is on life support.
     
  16. Gryson

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    I'm slightly skeptical about that quote from Manabu Kusunoki because at the end he says "that's just my conjecture." Without seeing the original Japanese, it's unclear if the entire statement is conjecture and just translated poorly. In other words, he might just be guessing that Sega had a trademark dispute.

    I say that because, yes, the SegaSonic branding was hugely prevalent in Japan, going back to the release of Sonic 1. Sega did not use the SegaSonic branding for any of its console releases, yet it did for most of its arcade releases (including the popcorn thing, the galaxy patrol, and unreleased SegaSonic bros) as well as for a lot of marketing material. You'd assume that if there was a trademark dispute, it would affect all releases. Also, I can't quite believe that Sega would have released an arcade name with the EXACT same title as their console game (Sonic the Hedgehog).

    I find it more likely that somebody in their marketing department just thought it made a catchier title and, you know, emphasized the company.

    I think you're overthinking it.
     
  17. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    It would be an oddball.

    There are a lot of Sega console "ports" from that are noticeably different to their arcade counterparts, despite being called the same thing. Off the top of my head - Alien Storm, Moonwalker, Enduro Racer, Line of Fire, ESWAT - but the general vision is often the same and the arcade versions always came first.


    Then again I can't think of a single 90s Sega arcade game that originated on a home console (except for Mega Play and Mega-Tech releases of course). Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing might be the first example of one and that was decades later.



    But you know it's said that the Japanese weren't really aware of Sonic in the mid-90s, because the Mega Drive hadn't been a success. So maybe you do want to educate them through the arcades (given Sega owned hundreds of venues). Those "Project Sonic" games on the Sega Saturn? To raise awareness of the character - it might even be the sole reason Sonic Jam exists!
     
  18. Gryson

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    That's really not true, though. Sonic was very much known in Japan from the time the first game came out.

    I just pulled a random issue of Famitsu off of my bookshelf - July 3, 1992 (a year after Sonic's release). Here are the top ten reader-rated games (year to date):

    1. Final Fantasy IV
    2. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
    3. Romancing SaGa
    4. Sonic the Hedgehog
    5. Tengai Makyō II: Manji Maru
    6. Dragon Quest IV
    7. Ys I & II
    8. Super Fire Pro Wrestling
    9. Shining Force
    10. Super Formation Soccer

    That's Sonic the Hedgehog, at number four in Famitsu, a year after it came out, holding its own against some of the biggest RPGs ever (notice: no Mario). The game was known. It was liked. It was the best selling Mega Drive game. And the Mega Drive was very much a success in Japan, if you define success as the company making money off of it and developers continuing to support it for 6+ years. (sorry for the long-winded reply: I've made it my personal mission to correct a lot of the misconceptions surrounding the MD in Japan)

    Anyway, in regards to the naming of the arcade game, I can't really see any advantage to naming it the same as the console game, two years after the console game came out. It would just be confusing. Naming it "SegaSonic the Hedgehog" differentiates it and ties it into the whole marketing thing they'd been pushing since the release of Sonic 1.
     
  19. Roller

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    Trademark law works on categories. It's technically possible they'd have it in the fields of video games, comics, and television, but not in toys, and only in Japan. Entirely conjecture, but it logically follows that the arcade machine might have been rebranded to have synergy with the claw machines it'd likely share an arcade with...