don't click here

The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by McGuirk, Jan 10, 2007.

  1. GerbilSoft

    GerbilSoft

    RickRotate'd. Administrator
    2,906
    40
    28
    USA
    rom-properties
    More specifically, the video hardware in the Neo Geo Pocket Color is somewhat better than SMS/GG while at the same time somewhat worse. (I don't have the full technical details on the NGPC's video processor, so I'm going with what's listed here.)

    • NGPC: 2 scroll planes, 4 colors per 8x8 tile. SMS: 1 scroll plane, 16 colors per 8x8 tile.
    • NGPC: 64 sprites onscreen, 4 colors per sprite. SMS: 64 sprites (maximum 8 per line), 16 colors per sprite
    The main difference is the NGPC's two scroll planes.

    Regarding color: Background tiles and sprites on SMS can use up to 16 colors (technically 15 due to transparency). Both NGPC and NES limit these to 4 colors (3 with transparency).
     
  2. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    often the real thing™ Wiki Sysop
    7,332
    1,311
    93
    Northumberland, UK
    It's wiki time. There's no need to be afraid.
    It's been a while since I've turned mine on, but from what I recall, the NGPC is a very... "stable" handheld. Whereas it became a tradition in the early 90s to send all the processing power towards graphics and sound, the NGPC throws its weight behind performance, presumably so its many fighting games weren't a flickery, laggy mess.

    The problem is that SNK decided to basically deliver graphics and sound comparable to the Game Boy Color, so even though it's a more powerful system than the Game Boy Color, it doesn't look like it. Like... at all. Also because you're dealing with a small screen resolution, you have to do quite a bit to really tax the hardware. Except I'm not sure they equipped it with enough memory to actually let you do that.

    It's as if SNK tried to port The King of Fighters 98 to the Game Boy Color, realised they couldn't do a good job, and so made a new, comparable system, gradually adding new components until the game ran properly.


    But as a handheld game console the NGPC is in a totally different league. By not having a backlight it can achieve bazillions of hours on a couple of AA batteries and it doesn't melt you hands in the process. And it can be an alarm clock! And it fits in a pocket!




    Seriously it's like 30-40 hours vs. 2 or 3 on a good day for the Game Gear. And the Game Gear ate through six AAs at a time.
     
  3. The NGPC has a 16-bit CPU clocked about twice as fast as the 8-bit Z80 in the SMS/GG, so it's no surprise that the NGPC can process more complex physics. I personally believe the SMS could do a little better in this regard with some clever optimizations and maybe some look-up tables, but that's beside the point.

    The answer is simple: the SMS and the GG use 4bpp (16-color) tiles, while the NES, GBC and NGPC all use 2bpp (4-color) tiles. This means that SMS/GG games don't need to do all the palette/attribute juggling that games on those other systems have, since they can directly address more colors.
     
  4. Felik

    Felik

    Member
    1,736
    10
    18
    Thanks guys! These questions were bothering me for a while now.
     
  5. MykonosFan

    MykonosFan

    MODE CHANGE. Moderator
    3,645
    402
    63
    There's a rabbit enemy in an ice level in Spyro 2 that uses the first sound effect, as well. It's in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion somewhere too, I think. Always fun to hear it pop up
     
  6. TimmiT

    TimmiT

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Member
  7. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    18,820
    700
    93
    Long-term happiness
    From the music stream last night:

    [12:58 AM] Overlord: Jun says that Open Your Heart was his 9th try at a theme for SA1
    [12:58 AM] Overlord: There were 8 previous tries he gave up on and restarted entirely clean

    The previous 8 tries he has kept in his own archives.
     
  8. Ell678

    Ell678

    Am I Annoying You? Member
    2,377
    19
    18
    Barrow, England
    Sonic Incursion
    Sorry to necro-quote, but that is some creepy shit right there. I thought showing Sonic's skeleton was considered "off-limits"? That's probably why it isn't used.
     
  9. GT Koopa

    GT Koopa

    Member
    2,011
    12
    18
    Elgin, IL
    Flicky Turncoat DX, T.L.W.S. Vs M.G.W.
  10. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    Member
    5,474
    455
    63
    The rules were much looser back then - look no further than the Japanese and Western Sonic dissonance. Nowadays, SEGA has very strict mandates in place. That's the reason that his colour swaps in the Smash series are all various shades of blue. And in the All Stars Racing games, SEGA told Sumo that no two players could play as the same character at the same time because "there's only one Sonic". I think that the latter in particular is pretty dumb. Who the hell even cares if two people play as the same character in multiplayer, especially online?
     
  11. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    often the real thing™ Wiki Sysop
    7,332
    1,311
    93
    Northumberland, UK
    It's wiki time. There's no need to be afraid.
    This conversation needs more sources - I've never seen anything about Sonic's alternative palettes being restricted on political grounds.


    That "can't show Sonic's skeleton" thing feels more like a myth too. I remember it being posted years and years ago, but it fell apart when it emerged just how often skeletons were shown in Sonic games. And it doesn't make much sense from the get go.




    Christ most of the hedgehogs I've seen have been flattened by cars. Hedgehog skeletons are a very common sight.
     
  12. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
    5,167
    295
    63
    Lincs, UK
    TurBoa, S1RL
    And yet, Sonic 3 Competition Mode exists.
     
  13. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    Member
    5,474
    455
    63
    :colbert:/>

    @ Black Squirrel: The skeleton thing I think may have been referenced in a style guide, but I'm totally unsure so don't quote me on that.

    As for the rest, I don't think the source even exists anymore. After the first ASR game was released, Steve Lycett/S0L of Sumo Digital was getting involved in discussions on SSMB. People were discussing patch updates and I suggested the ability to let more than one player use the same character in online races, because I couldn't understand why such a limitation would be put in place to begin with. S0L replied, saying that it was SEGA's rule that they weren't allowed to have more than one Sonic, nor were they allowed to use recolours of Sonic or even his vehicle because it was an extension of his character.

    Unfortunately, this was all before SSMB's server crash. All the proof that I can give you is my word, so yeah, you can't call it anything more than hearsay at this point. There's probably somewhere else that the rule is explained more clearly, accurately and reliably.
     
  14. Two or more players can play as the same character in Sega Superstars Tennis (in fact, when using Download Play in the DS version, both players can only play as Sonic), which only came out two years before ASR did, so I don't see why this would be allowed in Sega Superstars Tennis, but not in either of the All Stars Racing games.
     
  15. Sparks

    Sparks

    Member
    3,068
    64
    28
    Sondro Gomez / Kyle & Lucy
    So I was looking through some of the concept art for Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and I began to ponder something. Sorry to retrace established ground, but I'm just doing so to refresh peoples minds a bit to get to the question. :v:

    [​IMG]
    This piece of art is clearly the Metropolis objects and set pieces on the left being redrawn into more cybernetic parts on the right, so it feels like the level was going to be a reskin of Metropolis, probably similar to Emerald Hill/Hill Top but more extreme.

    Not sure if this piece is related but it looks like they were both drawn on STI letterhead, and the same kind of machinery:
    [​IMG]

    Yet, there's also three maps on the wiki for drawings of Metropolis Zone Act 3 in various stages:
    http://info.sonicretro.org/images/2/22/Metropolis3a.jpg
    http://info.sonicretro.org/images/2/2e/Metropolis3b.jpg
    http://info.sonicretro.org/images/3/39/Metropolis3c.jpg

    Which makes me wonder; How far in was the concept of Cyber City Zone turned into Metropolis Zone Act 3? Does Metropolis Zone Act 3 have remnants of what could've been Cyber Citys layout, or is it Metropolis-made in its entirety? Yuji Naka says that the map was finished for Cyber City, but retooled into Metropolis Act 3. Tom Payne says on the other hand that work was never started on the map, and that he instead worked on Metropolis Act 3 (presumably from the get-go?) due to having extra time on his hands as a result of scrapping Cyber City.

    I think I would go with Tom Paynes word on this, in that Metropolis 3 is simply its own creation as a result of losing Cyber City, rather than built on top of Cyber City layout wise. What do you guys think?
     
  16. Fred

    Fred

    Taking a break Oldbie
    1,563
    116
    43
    Portugal
    Sonic 3 Unlocked
    Act 3 does have some unique elements though, like the moving platforms at the start and the black pistons. And in the Wai proto, there's also the rhombus object. So it's not out of the real of possibility that some of these concepts were repurposed. (And in the case of the rhombus, canned altogether.)
     
  17. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Dude, my site's still up, no need to link to an archive of it. =\
     
  18. Sparks

    Sparks

    Member
    3,068
    64
    28
    Sondro Gomez / Kyle & Lucy
    Oops. :flunked: The archive was the source on the wiki, so fixing that is in order.
     
  19. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Ack, what the heck. It can't be edited. <=|
     
  20. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,648
    214
    43
    SonLVL
    I edited it just fine.