Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by BlackHole, Apr 8, 2018.
What comment was this?
You're appealing to my love of shared universes between games. Stop that.
Why would this make Knuckles' scenario in S3&K non-canon?
1. Hyper Sonic and Super Emeralds doesn't exist in post modern continuity.
2. Only Sonic, Shadow, and Silver can become Super in said continuity.
Basically, It make sense that all of the Egg Robos got destroyed along with the Death Egg, and that Knuckles doesn't need the chaos emeralds to get the Master Emerald back from Mecha Sonic.
Then again, this was from Iizuka and what he said subject to change sooner than later.
Hyper Sonic being non-canon doesn't mean dismissing the entirety of Sonic's scenario, so I don't see why the entirety of Knuckles' scenario should be dismissed either.
The problem with that is that what Iizuka says should be taken with a grain of salt. My THEORY is that his memory is fuzzy on things thus is prone to making stuff up on the spot. Prime example was when fans asked for them to include the option to play as Classic Sonic in Sonic 4 (as a skin) to which Iizuka said that Classic Sonic was never coming back....Oh hi Sonic Generations one year later.
Likewise, if we are to talk about Hyper Sonic specifically, his latest reason from a SXSW was that he didn't want it to be like a "certain anime" where characters keep getting powered up forms.
The question is at 14 min mark. You'll also find a question here where some kid asks him about the Sonic 3 music which he clearly isn't legally allowed to answer.
I don't agree with this. Metal Sonic was a main character since his release in Sonic CD. Why?
- Unlike the Mecha Sonic in Sonic & Knuckles, he wasn't just a boss that appeared in one level. He was a cornerstone of the story for Sonic CD. He appears on the boxart of the game. He appears in cutscenes such as when he steals Amy in collision chaos. He appears in every zone as a hollogram. He appears animated in the ending cutscene.
- He appears in Sonic Triple Trouble and gets a cutscene where he chases the player.
- He appears in Sonic the Fighters as a playable character.
- As you mentioned, he appears as the main villian in the Sonic OVA as the same character design.
- He also appears as the same design in Sonic R.
If anything, I'd say that Sonic Heroes was his first appearance that made him a 'different' character. He was obviously more than just one of Robotnik's robots...
To be honest I've always thought that Sonic was the only one that had a "true" super form even back in the Genesis days.
Knuckles and Tails just flashing white didn't exactly scream "super" to me and I saw them just as gameplay rewards. Also, it doesn't help that Super Sonic is the only one that actual has an effect on the story while Super Knuckles doesn't.
Thing here is that Iizuka seems to randomly choose what's canon and what's not instead of making a decent plot after the classic games. 1, CD, 2, and 3&K are a great base for a setting that culd have been expanded just by using different jewel sets to give new gameplay mechanics to the player, avoid to show the superstuff entirely, and leave the canon unharmed after that. It's not like Hyper Sonic is so different from Super, just a changing and more proper colouring for someone that uses the power of the chaos emeralds, and a double jump skill that you could have nerfed anyway. Super Sonic in Sonic Adventure could have been Hyper and we would never notice the difference since he only fights Chaos in that form, and you could argue the power drain Chaos caused made the emeralds lose their super power permanently and just kept the power they had before the Angel Island campaign. But, you know, they develop games, not stories.
Now I see Pengi's counter-point; you don't need Super Knuckles for that scenario to even have a good ending (or the Chaos Emeralds, at all).
Chiming in a bit here: While technically playable in the home port to 360/PS3, the original arcade title does not allow you to do this without modification. It would be more accurate to call him a mini-boss or sub-boss.
Other than that I don't disagree with you on any of this.
It was either at a "Sonic Boom" or "Summer of Sonic" Q&A that Hoshino said Metal Sonic was always intended to be a recurring character, not just a one-off. And let's not forget that he was also a playable character in Sonic Drift 2, his third appearance after CD and Triple Trouble.
He also appears in the manga as well.
You could say many of the same things about Mecha Sonic/Silver Sonic (We'll consider them one robot for the sake of simplicity)
- Mecha Sonic was the penultimate boss of Sonic 2 in both the 8-bit and 16-bit version and was the first robot version of Sonic.
- Mecha Sonic was not just a boss in S3&K. You fight him a total of 4 times throughout the game. Not to mention he was the final boss of Knuckles's story, which contrasts with Metal Sonic as a normal zone boss in Sonic CD.
- Further proving that Mecha Sonic isn't just a simple boss in S3&K is the fact that he makes a cameo in Blue Sphere. None of the other minibosses are shown there, only the main characters, Mecha Sonic, some freed animals, and the eggrobo from Knuckles's story. Why would Mecha Sonic be there too? He also appears in the bad ending.
- Mecha Sonic had the ability to achieve a super form. No other robot has achieved a true super form until Gemral in Sonic Advance 3 (Even then it's not the traditional superform).
- Mecha Sonic was on the boxart of Sonic & Knuckles, albeit in screenshot form, but still there with a caption to go along with it.
- Mecha Sonic is a boss in Sonic Pocket Adventure and gets a cutscene upon defeat. The only other boss that got a cutscene was the Knuckles boss.
- He makes a cameo in Sonic Adventure, and Gale Racer along with Metal Sonic.
What do you mean? Through hacking? The Xbox/PS3 re-release doesn't count either as that was made years later and was made after Sonic Heroes.
Well, why doesn't Mecha Sonic have much concept art or appear in any animations, etc.? Probably simply because of the design itself, Metal Sonic is much, much easier to work when drawing, animating, modeling, etc.
All this talk about metal makes me wish we had a game focused around sonic and metal, give us some deep lore as to why metal was made and how, and the rivaly between both of them somehow.
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