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The Sonic the Hedgehog Headcanon Thread of Lore and Time Stones

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by BlackHole, Aug 31, 2022.

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  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I meant "mystical" powers. Shadow is all weirdness with his Chaos things and alien blood and all that. Silver has psychokinesis. Amy reads magical cards (???) and even becomes invisible in 06 (???).

    Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and etc have "normal" powers.

    Green Hill has floating platforms. Maybe it's a natural occurrence due to the Chaos Emeralds being there long ago.

    The evolution made them live less after thousands of years. I don't know.

    Generations and Mania had Sky Sanctuary, at least.

    A never released game that would show things like that Mecha Sonic mk III presented in Sonic Adventure. Trust me.

    The UFOs are the aliens who built the Time Stones.
     
  2. Battons

    Battons

    Shining Force Fan Member
    Random thought.
    Classic Sonic was never in forces because mania was just an illusion so the events which led to him being in the future or another dimension or whatever the hell it was couldn’t have occurred.
     
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Already covered that :eng99:

     
  4. Since Mania Adventures more concretely follows on from Forces given Sonic’s farewell wave, would that mean the entirety of that series is an illusion within the Phantom Ruby?
     
  5. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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  6. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    If you consider Sonic Mania Adventures canon, yes. You could say the actual Phantom Ruby survived and took in Phantom Sonic in his own illusionary world. Or something to that effect, I don't consider it canon so don't put further thought into it.
     
  7. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I misremembered, my bad.
     
  8. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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    Last edited: May 16, 2023
  9. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Questions and propositions about continuity issues is there. Posts about our own headcanons generally with no solid basis is here.
    So this should be in the other thread. If a moderator sees this, could you move both his post and my reply, please?

    I don't understand 06' sequence of events but I guess this is just bootstrap paradox. The events in the present depend on something in the future going back to the past and interfering. So you don't change anything with the time travel, you just fulfill your destiny.
     
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Silver changes the past, so not quite.
     
  11. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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  12. 06's script certainly doesn't help make the time travel any less confusing, but Shadow sealing Mephiles is clearly intended to be an ontological paradox in which a perfect loop is formed. Indeed, I believe each use of time travel in 06 is predestined.

    Take for example Sonic going back in time to save Elise. Here's how I think the time travel narrative was intended by the writers:
    • Sonic pursues the Egg Carrier through Kingdom Valley, but fails to catch up and watches from afar as it explodes. The people of Soleanna, like Sonic, believe Elise to have perished in the crash. Iblis is not seen being released.
    • Sonic and Silver use double Chaos Control to create a portal, which Sonic enters to arrive a few hours in the past.
    • Sonic boards the Egg Carrier via Aquatic Base. He defeats Eggman and escapes with Elise as the ship crashes. In fact, this is another ontological paradox, and this was always Elise's fate even when Sonic watched from Kingdom Valley.
    • Mephiles kills Sonic, causing Elise to cry and release Iblis.
    • Mephiles merges with Iblis, and the two reform Solaris, who begins an assault on time itself... except not quite. Solaris, a being that transcends time, is the only one capable of making a change to the timeline that is not predestined. From a meta-temporal perspective, the change to the timeline that is the reformation of Solaris has not "happened" yet. Viewing this timeline holistically, we can see how events proceed...
    • Iblis' reign of destruction begins. Elise is presumably killed by Iblis. As far as the people of Soleanna are aware, the Egg Carrier crashed with Elise aboard. This information is made accessible from a database that exists by Silver's time 200 years in the future.
    Put as simply as possible, I think time travel in 06 is rife with ontological paradoxes. The timeline is presented as immutable and in a state that always was/is/will be. Shadow and Silver always travel back in time to seal Mephiles and Iblis. Elise never dies on the Egg Carrier, she is always rescued by Sonic. Sonic is always killed by Mephiles, and Iblis is always released by Elise's tears upon Sonic's death. There are no alternatives to these events that resolve the paradoxes, there paradoxes simply function as part of the overall timeline.

    Solaris reforming and devouring time is the only exception to this rule, the single event that didn't always "happen". As an extra-temporal being, its very existence reflects the only true change resulting in a new timeline - or more aptly, a lack of a timeline. And as we all know, it eventually leads to the premature destruction of Solaris and rebooting of the timeline.

    Of course, you can levy all sorts of criticisms against this thinking and you'd be right. It doesn't fare well against much scrutiny. Nonetheless, I do think this is the basic gist of what the writers were going for with the game's story.
     
  13. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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  14. Frostav

    Frostav

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    Maybe someone has come up with this already but I now have the headcanon that the super emeralds and hyper sonic never returned because the chaos emeralds now are the super emeralds and Super Sonic is what used to be Hyper Sonic. Two reasons for this:

    -The designs of the emeralds in the 3D games much more close resembles the super emeralds

    -More importantly, Super Sonic got a huge power bump in them. In the 2D games he is powerful and fast, yeah, but the 3D games make it clear that Super Sonic is a nigh-invulnerable demigod capable of almost effortlessly destroying anything, including stuff that goes way beyond anything in the classics. Like, he can solo the Final Hazard, Dark Gaia, Metal Overlord, the Titans, Solaris, etc. Super Sonic in the classics still needs multiple hits to merely take down a big eggman machine (YES I KNOW that that's just gameplay mechanics come on this is a headcanon thread LEMME HAVE FUN). Sonic can be hit out of it by one square punch in 3&K but in Unleashed it takes Eggman tricking him and using an entire special machine just to depower Sonic.

    Also, I just had a brain-blast and now believe that Chaos Control is just the Hyper Sonic dash but perfected to go much longer.

    "Okay why are the Super Emeralds now hand-sized instead of bigger than a person like in S3&K" idk lmao
     
  15. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Something I'm working on uses Sonic Blast's detail that the Chaos Emeralds can be split into several different coloured jewels so that it also happened after the Perfect Chaos Incident, and the Chaos Emeralds they're collecting early on are these 'shards', so Super Sonic is only a fraction of his actual power.

    I'm also using it to explain how Gerald had a Chaos Emerald 50 years ago on the ARK, despite them apparently being hidden away on the islands. He actually has a South Island Chaos Emerald Fragment, which is why there's only six there.
     
  17. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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  18. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    For me, it stops with Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, with the Super Emeralds being the fully recombined Chaos Emeralds.

    The order of events would be the timeline I built:
    [​IMG]

    Sonic and Tails collect the Chaos Emeralds from Cocoa Island, South Island and Westside Island and recombine what they can, Robotnik collects the seventh South Island Chaos Emerald from the United Federation and seventh Cocoa Island Chaos Emerald from the Battle Kukku remnants (different Emeralds, however), and Knuckles has the Angel Island set before they disappear and Sonic collects them later.

    Debating on the fifth set being from Sonic Drift or a set Fang collected, to merge the cutscene of Knuckles making off with five but the manual having Fang claim to have already collected them.

    Either way, by Sonic the Hedgehog 3, all five sets are now on Angel Island, and when Sonic collects Angel Island's set and enters the Hidden Palace...

    Sonic Blast happens after, resulting in a Chaos Emerald rebreaking.
     
  19. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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  20. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    They restore it after Sonic Blast. No sense leaving it shattered.

    I'm decontextualizing that as simply Chaos GP graphics they didn't update for the second annual one, since as far as I recall you only see them on menus.

    Sonic Pocket Adventure is a bit more tricky, since you see all of them at the end in their brilliant cut form, when they disperse.
    [​IMG]