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The Sonic the Hedgehog Headcanon Thread of Lore and Time Stones

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by BlackHole, Aug 31, 2022.

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  1. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Or, Knuckles' parents raised him during his early childhood but died before Sonic 3, leaving him the last echidna. Animal friends don't seem to be able to speak in the current canon, judging from the Flickies in SA1 and the small animals in Sonic Lost World.
     
  2. Starduster

    Starduster

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    In light of learning that Christian Whitehead interprets the Phantom Ruby as being enriched by the power of the mind, I've finally found myself a satisfying resolution to the stone's inconsistencies in its application as well as some depth to how the prototypes interact in Sonic Forces:

    The Phantom Ruby is a stone that is capable of creating augmented reality illusions, virtual reality environments AND functioning as a reality warping gem. Its capabilities are dependent on the strength of the user's will. Let's go through some examples to demonstrate the delineation:
    • The phantom clones as seen in Sonic Forces would come under augmented reality illusions. They're able to be produced en masse, are generally quite weak in larger quantities and have little persistence once they begin to sustain damage. Under this headcanon, it follows that they take little will on Infinite's part to produce.
    • Next is Null Space, a virtual reality environment that Eggman and Infinite cooked up to trap Sonic in. It exists within its own dimension and independently of any environment of the outside world - an entirely artificial construction that likely took Infinite considerably more willpower and concentration to construct. However, the combined will of Sonic and the rookie allowed them to overcome the virtual reality to escape Null Space (likely helped by the fact that Infinite was not actively exerting his will within Null Space, though Sonic's would certainly have been stronger anyway).
    • Finally, we have examples of the Ruby making persistent, sometimes permanent changes, up to and including transporting itself and others across time and space. The iteration of the Ruby that we see in Mania permanently changes the Hard Boiled Heavies, likely as a result of their will and tenacity to serve Eggman. These changes never revert, even after the influence of the Ruby is removed, nor after they're defeated by Sonic and friends. In both Mania Plus and the 30th anniversary special comic, the Hard Boiled Heavies continue to exist, both active and in states of disrepair at different times. And of course there is the case of classic Sonic becoming involved in the plot of Forces. It's unclear how and why this happened, but I think one possible explanation is that Sonic's overriding will to defeat Eggman was not only detected by the Phantom Ruby, but became volatile in the presence of the Chaos Emeralds, throwing him into the future to defeat even more Eggman than he had initially intended to.
    So yeah, I think this is a pretty satisfying way to clear up the Phantom Ruby inconsistencies while also providing mechanical depth regarding how Sonic escapes Null Space, how his past self aided in the war against Eggman and how the rookie was able to cancel out Infinite's illusions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2022
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  3. Josh

    Josh

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    By Sonic R, Sonic has become so fluent with the Chaos Emeralds that he no longer needs rings to sustain his super form. I decided this must be the case when I was 9, because it bothered me.
     
  4. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    He still doesn't need them, he just chooses to limit the transformation to them and is deliberately draining his rings one by one for the challenge. Cases where it's serious enough, he'll not do such a challenge, like Sonic Unleashed.
     
  5. Starduster

    Starduster

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    How would you rationalise Generations, in that case?
     
  6. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Sonic Blast from the Game Gear is actually about Sonic and Knuckles trying to find Eggman's new secret base (Silver Castle Zone). Sonic searches it in South Island (Green Hill Zone and Blue Marine Zone) while Knuckles does it in Angel Island (Yellow Desert Zone and Red Volcano Zone).
     
  7. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    While Tails eventually becomes more independent and outgrows being attached to Sonic, Ray is the opposite with Mighty, only becoming more emotionally dependent on him as he gets older.
     
  8. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    The weird map in Sonic Forces actually refers to after Eggman takes over 99% of the world. He renamed the continents as he pleased. So when we had Green Hill: Arsenal Pyramid, that was actually a continent that he named Green Hill and not the island. When we had Green Hill: Green Hill, that was actually the island.
     
  9. Starduster

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    So I guess this may be a bit of a "no shit" post since I think this is pretty comprehensively supported by the text of Sonic Adventure, but, back when Generations was still the new hotness, people liked to poke fun at the fact that Sonic beat Chaos without turning Super in that game. Thing is, Sonic didn't turn Super to beat Chaos. He did it to quelle his rage. Granted, I don't know how in god's name spindashing the water kaiju's brain three times is meant to induce soothing tranquillity, but when Tikal talks about sealing Chaos again, Sonic pointedly counters with that solution not changing how he feels inside. Sonic didn't need to go Super for the fight in Generations because his only goal was to subdue Chaos and get past him and onto the next part of White Space. Still, that does raise implications of what exactly the boss encounter was within the broader context of Time Eater's meddling. Was it a pocket dimension containing an isolated event? A bad timeline? A conditional scenario that disappeared when Time Eater was defeated? It's unlikely to be an in-universe retcon, since this pretty crucial change doesn't seem to have affected the persistent timeline (as far as we know).

    Just musings that I've had knocking around in my head for a few years now.
     
  10. charcoal

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    I always thought it was just because Sonic has become much more powerful and experienced between SA1 and Generations that Sonic doesn't even need to go super for encounters that used to give him trouble. Especially considering that Sonic has the boost in Generations, which he didn't in SA1. (Is the boost even something Sonic can canonically do? I always assumed it was because things like the Spin Dash are also canon but it could just be a gameplay mechanic considering it's never referenced in dialogue.)
     
  11. BlackHole

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    I always viewed Sonic Generations as them running through the world as the events unfold per memory. In Perfect Chaos' case, Sonic isn't beating him, he's at most delaying Perfect Chaos while his past self and friends collect the Chaos Emeralds for Super Sonic.

    But that's a major headcanon, so...

    EDIT: Speaking of Perfect Chaos, in Sonic X he wrecks Station Square per the game. The problem is, he's on Earth: he just wrecked a completely innocent third party from a different world...
     
  12. Starduster

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    Maybe I'm getting my wires crossed but, like checkpoint posts and rings and such, I believe it's one of those "non-canon" gameplay features that we just don't think too hard about. Of course, Sonic doesn't have it in Frontiers and the comics have never really had it (maybe they've done things that look like the boost once or twice but there is also direction from SEGA to not make Sonic too overpowered, so that'd also be a factor in the boost not being prominent in the comics).
     
  13. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I don't get the lore implications of Generations' boss fights, if there is any.

    Shadow and Silver don't seem to have been taken from past Final Rush and erased Crisis City. They are their current selves, brought from wherever they were, despite the fights happening in those places.

    However, Classic Eggman seem to have been kidnapped directly from Sonic 2's Death Egg, as the battle against him suggests. He could be faking it, of course, but I don't see the purpose.

    We could infere that the true Boss Battles in Generations were actually in the past, while the Rival Battles were in places from the past, but the rivals themselves were not. In that case, why were they there?
    In any case, if that's true, and Perfect Chaos being a Boss Battle, then that happened in the past. I guess it should have been Super Sonic for the logic to make sense, but maybe the white space Time Eater created has issues with the Chaos Emeralds.

    EDIT: the Egg Dragoon Boss Battle doesn't seem to be in the past, since Eggman doesn't seem to be surprised to see two Sonics and two Tails. Besides, Time Eater rescues him; if this was another kidnap, there should be 3 Eggmans at the end. So the logic does not apply entirely. But Pefect Chaos shouldn't be there at his present self, because he is Chaos 0 nowadays, so that battle must be in the past.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2022
  14. This 100%. Some early comic adaptations (and far too many fanfictions) notwithstanding, rings, checkpoints, dash panels, springs, et al. are all simply game mechanics, and as far as I'm concerned, should be considered non-canon for story purposes.

    FWIW though, there is a fancomic that portrayed boosting as an ability that Sonic developed with maturity (and which he consequently lost when he fell for a booby trap that age-swapped him and Tails).
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I could see it, since boosting started in Sonic Adventure 2 and just kind of grew from there.
     
  16. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Don’t you mean Advance 2? If not, I’m really struggling to remember anything Boost-adjacent for Sonic in Adventure 2.
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    No, Sonic Adventure 2: it's in the multiplayer, Speed Up, where after X amount of Rings the Speedhogs can use it to boost their speed.
     
  18. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Oh, that’ll explain it then, never touched the multiplayer. Doesn’t S3K’s Doomsday also give the player the ability to speed up by holding a button, though? :eng99:
     
  19. BlackHole

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    Since Sonic's airspaceborne, I'd think that's more akin to a homing attack without a target.

    EDIT: Wait a minute... Sonic Generations' ending cutscene has Classic Sonic do that as well...
     
  20. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    All the other mystic gems were created by ancient civilizations trying to replicate the Chaos Emeralds, just like Tails did in SA2.

    Time Stones control time. Warp Topaz, space. Chaos Rings, power. Phantom Ruby, reality. The Chaos Emeralds, all of it.