The Sonic the Hedgehog Headcanon Thread of Lore and Time Stones

Wasn't the whole "there were four Great Civilizations" thing basically just another mistranslation/localization? I recall the Japanese Battle script referring to the people wiped out by Gizoid as "the Fourth Great Civilization" instead. Meaning that it just happened to be the 4th one, and there might have been more than 4.

 

Ah, I got them mixed up. Derp. It's been a while since checked the retranslation.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

And how is this translation issue in Shadow Generations? Because the journal (in English) still mentions a "fourth" civilization (entry #402).

 

Yeah I mean, if they are going to merge both versions for canon, "the fourth" is "one of the four", so it would make sense to decide it's in fact the fourth.

 

Unless they're gonna go as far as to imply that each successive civilization took the place of the last, numbering them 1 through 4 doesn't really make any particular difference. It's not strictly accurate, sure, but if they're unnumbered to begin with then whichever one Emerl destroyed being "the fourth" of something isn't particularly harmful.

 

I'm aware of that! I was more so thinking along the lines of what Deep Dive Devin was saying, that the 4 Great Civilizations are a fantasy thing inspired by their real life counterparts. I actually think it's really cool when fantasy settings take inspiration from actual obscure history tidbits, like how in One Piece a lot of characters are inspired by real life pirates. I think it is an interesting world building idea, if nothing else, and I'd love to see them develop more on the idea in future sonic games. I know that in the script of sonic battle it was part mistranslated part just random fluff they added to make Emerl seem cool, but it's part of the series now so they could lean into it if they want.

I prefer the idea that the 4 civilizations existed in sequence rather that all at once, because it's cool to think that the sonic world is just multiple societies built on top the ruins of each other. Ancient civilizations had been a thing since sonic 1 in the background, the idea that like, if you even deeper into the ruins you'd find an even ANCIENT-ER civilization is really neat and gives a sort of magicalness to the series? Like the idea that this cycle of death and rebirth has happened more times than you can count and the history we have is just the surface layer, it's the kind of lore that inspires imagination.

One thing I'd like them to develop on it what specifically is required to count as a "Great Civilization". I mean, in real life it is just the cradles of civilization but in the sonic world it probably would have to have something to do with the Chaos Emeralds. Like, to become a GV you have to have all 7 plus the Master Emerald, and be able to harness it's power freely. Or, since frontiers introduced the Ancients, the 4GV could just be any civ that is descendant of the Ancients. In the lore of the ancients they are said to have multiple tribes with different body types that correspond to different animal features, and characters like the Babylon Rogues and Dodon-Pa establish that aliens in the series can just look like animals anyway, so you could say that the different 4GC have the DNA of one of the ancient tribes.

-Big and powerful bodies: Dinosaurs. They learned how to grow magic gems, and originated the non-chaos emerald stones like the Phantom Ruby. They abused their power and were destroyed by a meteor (naturally). Some dinosaurs survived is secret, hiding themselves from modern society by becoming ninjas (Espio). The Sungazer Clan Trip came from is also descendant from the Dinosaurs, which is how they have greater control of emerald powers.
-Tail instead of legs: Fish. They were the most technologically advanced race, building robots that took care of their needs (Gizoids). But, they became too complacent and eventually the Gizoids destroyed them, sinking their society into the sea. The ruins became Newtrogic High Zone, which had rose out the sea in Knuckle's Chaotix.
-Walked on four legs: Mammals/Echidna specifically. Yes, in this head cannon Knuckles would have at least partial alien DNA.
-Winged tribe: Babylonians. This would require the ancients having had to go back into space and then return to earth, or maybe you could say that the legends from Riders were actually referring to the Ancients and not the Babylonians.
-More intelligent than the others: Humans. Abraham Towers would be part ancient, manifesting in his heterochromia. He joined GUN after learning of his past and wanting to use GUN's military power to build the Fifth Great Civilization.

 

Im unfamiliar if this is actually part of the lore or not, but is there any actual evidence/quote from the series saying that the Black Arms went to earth prior to ShtH?

 

Oh, neat. There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on what the Black Arms actually did when they went to earth though. I kinda interpret it as them building temples in preparation for the invasion that happens during the events of ShtH, and not that much fighting actually happened 2000 years ago. But I wonder what they could do story-wise with a war between the Black Arms and the Echidnas.

 

...is that an echidna riding a dinosaur?

I gotta read sonic the comic, apparently.

 

I don't think the echidnas should be one of the four great civilizations.
because, what made "the four great civilizations" great? i assume it's the level of technology.
if humans are not considered a great civilizations, echidnas shouldn't either.

 

There are multiple possible ways to address this.
1. The great civilizations can't just have great technology, but they have to be able to harness Chaos Energy. The only human scientists that have been shown to do that is Eggman, Gerald, and GUN.
2. Great Civilizations are those descendant from the Ancients, so it doesn't matter how advanced they are because its solely a genetics thing.
3. Humans don't count purely because they are split into multiple different countries and arent a single 'civilization'. To become a Great Civilization they would have to unite under a single banner.