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The Sonic the Hedgehog Headcanon Thread of Lore and Time Stones

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by BlackHole, Aug 31, 2022.

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  1. Kyro

    Kyro

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    There's just one issue with that one

    [​IMG]
    (I know shadow came after and this could be a retcon but its what we have for now)
     
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Those are mouth lasers, which actually added to aforementioned confusion as a kid since I thought the Artificial Chaos were based on Perfect Chaos mostly, hence the singular body curving up into the base of the head and tentacles, not the humanoid body Chaos has.
     
  3. DigitalDuck

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    Obviously Gerald's design of Shadow was based on the statues of Sonic in Hydrocity Zone:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. BlackHole

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    Still wonder about those statues. And Hydrocity, now that Sonic Frontiers is a thing: is Hydrocity an Echidna construction or an Ancient construction?
     
  5. Beamer the Meep

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    Ok, admittedly I didn't know about that description. It actually puts me more at ease that no chao were harmed during the creation of Artificial Chaos.
     
  6. Kilo

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    Well the Ancients really never made prophecies, they just documented their own history via Cyberspace. Their architecture was mostly practical. The Echidnas were more about the prophecy of Sonic, so I don't believe the Hydrocity statues were the Ancients doing. Hydrocity itself however can be called into question, since in Sonic Frontiers Divergence, a Cyberspace Gate is placed within an abandoned temple of sorts in Sky Sanctuary, which could hint that Sky Sanctuary was built by the Ancients, and therefore Hydrocity could also be their doing. Another argument in favour this theory is that structures certain to be built by Echidnas like Lost World, are relatively primitive compared to the complexity of both Hydrocity and Sky Sanctuary.
     
  7. BlackHole

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    I mean, I don't think there's any prophecy we can attribute to the Echidna. The Dragon Egg was a legend, rather than a prophecy, and we can't source the creators of the Hidden Palace for that one. The Chaos murals are otherwise warnings.

    As you noted, the Sky Sanctuary seems to be Ancient rather than Echidna, and with the connective teleporters in Hidden Palace it would suggest the Ancients.

    Honestly, the prophecy thing is an oddity... I feel like they should've had a prophecy mentioned in Sonic Adventure, where Pachacamac would find an opponent that he could not defeat without power enriched by the heart, and that opponent would doom the Echidna, to better explain why he's willing to run over his daughter to get the Chaos Emeralds. Only to find a certain opponent...
     
  8. charcoal

    charcoal

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    On the topic of the Ancients being linked to stuff from past games, something thats been on my mind is that the existence of special stages could potentially be linked to Cyberspace.

    Cyberspace seems to be somewhat of a fourth dimensional space, not limited by any actual area, and it was originally created to contain the Emeralds, so its not a stretch to think the special stage gates are rifts in reality caused by cyberspace appearing throughout space and time. Just an idea to chew on.
     
  9. Kilo

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    I'm somewhat a fan of the idea except for the fact that Cyberspace never contained the Chaos Emeralds. Cyberspace was a server for the Ancients' memories and data. They used the Emerald Vaults, which you'd know if you actually played Frontiers :V
    I think in theory they could've used it to contain the emeralds, seeing as they managed to seal away The End in it for a couple hundred Millenia, but it causes more questions than it answers. Such as why the method for entering Cyberspace would keep changing over the course of the series, going back and forth between warp rings and checkpoints, sometimes even monitors, until suddenly going back to the Cyberspace Gates. Or why the rest of the cast used to be able to enter and leave Cyberspace to fetch the Emeralds but then suddenly when Sage throws them in there they're too weak to get out. And how come they never encountered The End's disembodied voice trying to gaslight them into being released beforehand?
    The only part of this theory that makes some sense is why the same rehashed rotating maze, half-pipe, and blue spheres challenges keep reappearing, as they'd be built on the character's memories, but then that also comes into question where those initial memories were formed? Is the half-pipe a physical location in Sonic's world? That would open a whole other can of worms.
     
  10. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    I know people are sick of SA2 topics at this point, but this was brought up in the other thread.

    So, Eggman and Rouge use the teleporter in the pyramid base to get up to the ARK, and Shadow uses Chaos Control. Shadow puts the Chaos Emerald in the Eclipse Cannon and explains how it works, and they plan to return to the surface. But...how do they get back down? Shadow can't use Chaos Control while the emerald's stuck in the machine. And when they leave for the surface the second time (to track down Tails) they leave the room, so whatever method they use to get down isn't in the central control room.

    Does the ARK have a teleporter? I guess it's not unlikely, given the technology they had even 50 years ago, but one problem: Eggman went up to the ARK without knowing what was there.
    By "knowing what's there" he means visiting the ARK and figuring out what Shadow's plan is before he brings any Chaos Emeralds. But if he didn't know about the Eclipse Cannon before going there, how would he know about a teleporter? So for him to go up to the ARK means he must've had a plan for getting back down.

    My only guess is that Eggman has some kind of portable teleporter that's able to link up with the one in his base, that he can travel back and forth to at will. Or maybe a device that allows the teleporter in his base to keep a lock on his coordinates, and he can somehow remotely control it from his Eggwalker.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2024
  11. Beamer the Meep

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    I always figured the "space transporter" required two terminals in order to function rather than operating one-way. That said, it could also be that it is one-way but works by remote so you can "beam back" like with Star Trek's transporters. In Deep Space Nine in particular, an officer can call up to the "Runabout" shuttle's computer and have it beam them back.
     
  12. charcoal

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    Sorry if I didnt make it clear in my post but I meant that Cyberspace was originally meant to store the emeralds early in development not in universe, clearing all missions in a level originally rewarded an emerald outright instead of vault keys being a middleman.
     
  13. BlackHole

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    I figured they were tied to Subspace, since that was an element in Sonic the Hedgehog Triple Trouble and Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island.

    Regardless, it's noted in the Japanese manual that the 'distortions' are something that South Island is generating:

    If we assume your idea about the Special Stages being related to Cyberspace, perhaps what's happening is some Ancient Technology on the island interacting with the moving island strangely, causing the distortions mentioned. If I tie in my "South Island is a piece of Angel Island that fell off as it initially rose" headcanon, then that would explain why they have similar phenomena while Westside Island requires the use of the Star Posts...
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2024
  14. Can’t he? He was able to activate Chaos Control a short distance away from the emeralds when teleporting Rouge and himself off of Prison Island.

    But yes, I think Eggman clearly had to have a method of returning to the planet. Perhaps he can remotely program the pyramid teleporter to beam himself out a la Star Trek.
     
  15. BlackHole

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    This has come up before in the Sonic Prime thread: Shadow CAN use Chaos Control without the Chaos Emeralds. Sonic Battle confirmed it, as does Shadow the Hedgehog. Quoting from that thread:

     
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  16. DefinitiveDubs

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    My understanding is that he grabbed them at the last second to beam her out. Besides, if that were really the method he used to take them to the surface, then why would they be walking away from the Emeralds when they leave?
    In all those instances, he only teleports a very short distance. It's somewhat understandable that he could teleport short distances without an Emerald since he does that in the fight with Sonic in SA2 anyway, but I imagine if he wants to go all the way from outer space to the surface of Earth, he needs an Emerald to go that far, otherwise his power level is absurd. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of miles here. He wouldn't need to do anything on foot if he could travel any distance and had no power loss from doing so.

    Even if he can use Chaos Control without an Emerald post-SA2, he says in Sonic Battle that he "no longer needs it", implying that pre-Battle, his power wasn't strong enough to use Chaos Control without one.

    Also, for The Last Way, that's definitely an oversight. In Westopolis, you can't use Chaos Control until after grabbing the first Emerald.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2024
  17. BlackHole

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    Counterpoint: Shadow uses Chaos Control while fighting Sonic on the last run to the Eclipse Cannon, when we know six Chaos Emeralds are in said cannon and the seventh is currently with Tails and Robotnik. He most certainly doesn't have a Chaos Emerald on him at the time.

    You could assume he's using the fake Chaos Emerald in Sonic's hand, but that means he can use Chaos Control while simply in range of a Chaos Emerald, rather than needing it on his person like every other time, not to mention its status as a fake. If he was able to wrestle it from Sonic, then I would expect him to, y'know, throw it off the side so Sonic can't use it against the Eclipse Cannon.
     
  18. Childish

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    not if the dark story version of that fight is the cannon one :P

    I always envision that fight in my head as Sonic and Shadow constantly fighting over the fake emerald taking turns snatching it off each other. But that's just my personal headcannon. In actual cannon I assume he can do it without an emerald but only short distances (obviously later he gets better at using it without an emerald). Sorta explains why he doesn't just chaos control straight to Rouge and has to go through white jungle, etc.
     
  19. BlackHole

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    If I recall correctly, please correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't White Jungle supposed to be Sonic's stage? But then this probably ties back to the idea that Tails, Shadow and Rouge weren't supposed to be playable in Sonic Adventure 2.

    Doesn't help that Sonic has a subsequent 8 minutes to get through the jungle, while Shadow only gets there in the nick of time to save Rouge: White Jungle is literally getting Shadow into place for Sonic, rather than saving Rouge, and we skip that part of the 'stage'.
     
  20. Lambda

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    Pretty sure you're thinking of Sky Rail. There was a promo image for the game showing Sonic in Sky Rail.

    Also the music in that stage doesn't really fit the style of any of the other Shadow stages, it's much more in-line with Sonic stage music.