The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    26 vote(s)
    20.6%
  2. I hate it

    43 vote(s)
    34.1%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    17 vote(s)
    13.5%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    40 vote(s)
    31.7%
  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Probably not. And the Black Comet shows up close only to Earth too. The planets from Sonic Colors are close to Sonic's world and not Earth. The Lost Hex is on Sonic's world and not Earth. Little Planet should be close to Sonic's world too but who the fuck knows at this point.

    The two-worlds concept is too confused and unnecessary.
     
  2. Swiftbix

    Swiftbix

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    The Lost Hex, Little Planet, and Planet Wisp would be easy to retcon as being close to Earth since in they’re respective games we don’t see much of “Sonic’s World” besides the common grass area. I hope in some future game there is an area inhabiting both humans and anthropomorphic animals, kinda like what Amy had going on in Sonic Adventure on a wider scale.
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I found this map around the internet that looks pretty interesting. It pretty much does that.
     
  4. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    To be fair, Robotnik dragged Planet Wisp, plus the other Wisp planets, into orbit around Earth.

    And yes, since they are likely to drop the Two World aspect, I'm calling the planet Earth.
     
  5. Swiftbix

    Swiftbix

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    Oh, yes! Thank you! It’s been years since I first looked at that one. And it’s still looking good. One thing though, isn’t Planet Wisp the only area that survived the events of Sonic Colors?
     
  6. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    Quick question: when, exactly, does Classic Sonic from Generations come from? Post-S2 or Post-S3K?
     
  7. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I never understood if Planet Wisp is the only real planet in Colors and Eggman created the others, or if all of them are real and Eggman just adapted them.


    We don't know for sure... but imo it should be post-S3K.
    Sonic was in Green Hill defeating badniks when he was kidnapped. From the plot of the classic games, Sonic 2 leads straight to Sonic 3K (people in this thread might disagree though), so there would be no logical reason for Sonic to be beating badniks in Green Hill. And it would be very weird if this had happened during Sonic 1, because it looks like Classic Sonic and Classic Tails know each other (but this is very ambiguous), and Classic Sonic becomes Super at the end of the game. So it should be some time after Sonic 3K.
     
  8. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Landmasses most certainly do - a load of land, including the Floating Angel Island came through after a Chaos Control accident in episode 26, leading directly into the Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 adaptations.
     
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  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Indeed, I would be one of those people.

    Even without the 8-bit titles, I'd put Sonic Generations' classic events as post-Sonic the Hedgehog 2, pre-Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Sonic is exploring an island prior to Sonic the Hedgehog 3, indicating time has passed between the two events. How much time is the main source of contention.

    Thus, Sonic Generations, taking place in a timeless void, could have occurred at some point between them, 'instantaneously' from the world's perspective as happened with Modern Sonic (allowing him to catch the chili dog) beyond the opening Green Hill Zone level.
     
  10. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

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    It makes sense to me!

    I guess when it comes to a franchise, especially one that's had as many people involved as Sonic the Hedgehog has, it's hard to define exactly what the "word of god" is. Like it's been mentioned here, apparently Sonic Rivals isn't canon, full stop, even though there's no reason it can't be. Or we can remember when Kevin Eva worked at Sega, stated that Secret Rings wasn't part of the timeline, then after he left the company, Sonic Generations comes out and contradicts him. He didn't just make that up, he was under the impression from those above him that Secret Rings didn't count, yet that changed in less than a year.

    What is and isn't canon, what the "timeline" of Sonic is, seems to be very fluid. Which makes sense! Probably the reason why they've never released something along the lines of the Zelda timeline in the Hyrule Historia. So in trying to piece together the one I made above, I tried to look at everything, starting with the original "text" of the game. The final product, whatever script might be there (in Japanese, most of the time), and then look outside of that. Manuals, strategy guides with content signed off by Sega, the localizations, and finally, statements by the creators. If the "Word of God" is absolute, what do you do when various creators contradict each other? Iizuka and Naka seemingly about the Two Worlds concept, or Yamaguchi, Ohshima, and Ken Balough when asked about Sonic CD's placement in the timeline? And if the creator contradicts their own work, what ranks higher?

    All timelines end up being headcanon to some degree, anyway. Because people will read and interpret the source material in different ways. Just like how people will argue what something is truly meant to mean in classic works, from The Wizard of Oz to the Great Gatsby and everything in-between. Not to mention there's always the "Death of the Author," when the text takes a life of its own even if it contradicts what the creator says they intended. It's what makes discussion and dissection on any work interesting. There's so much to pull back and examine, and if everyone agreed on every aspect, that would be boring.

    If Two Words can be fluid and changing (which I guess it is, if Ian's recent comments are anything to go off), then there's nothing in the games that outright contradicts what I've whipped up. If the next game does, then it does, and changes can be made accordingly. I'd just want it to be a good story, something that makes sense within the universe, and justifies such a split. Just like I would have been ok with the Two Worlds idea if they had justified its existence within the universe (even if it does make more sense for everything to exist as one).

    I'm of the mind there isn't one true path. If there is, you're always leaving something on the table. For instance, in "Together with Maria," Shadow never goes to Cryptic Castle. He never is presented with the choice to save Cream. Yet in Expert Mode, you have Cream thank Shadow for rescuing her earlier. You have Shadow get the final Chaos Emerald on the ARK, though the implication in the Final Story is that he gets it on the Black Comet. You have to add and change things for it to work, which is the case for every path. I mean, wouldn't you need Vector to find the computer room? The Chaotix are up on the ARK, they're the ones who are able to get the broadcast going in the final story! They...is Vector the one who ends up firing the Eclipse Canon at the Black Comet? I don't know if he's the first person I'd trust with such a thing.

    I knew I forgot something in my timeline...
     
  11. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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    Please add the OK K.O.! crossover while your at it.
     
  12. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Now that the Rivals series is non canon, I was trying to figure the Silver problem out. My solution is horrible but it is what it is:

    - First Sonic Rush comes;
    - Then the non canon part comes: Sonic Rivals, Sonic Rivals 2 and Sonic Colors DS (yep). This is when Silver meets Sonic for the first time for the second time. This part is non canon because...;
    - Then Sonic Rush Adventure comes. Eggman Nega traveled further back in time, erasing the three games above. Now Silver and Sonic don't know each other again;
    - Then comes the Storybook series, the Riders series, Unleashed and Colors Wii (not in this exact order);
    - Then comes Sonic Generations. The Time Eater resurrects Crisis City and that triggers Silver's (and Blaze's) memories. Now Silver remembers 06, including Sonic. After Sonic fixes the timelines beating the Time Eater, everyone forgot 06 again, but they remember Generations. So Silver still knows Sonic from now on.
     
  13. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Perhaps we should opt for 'potential placements' rather than trying to define a fluid timeline. Place games on the timeline in the position they would be if they were declared canon, since Chaotix has been canon, non-canon, then canon again, and possibly non-canon once more.
     
  14. Pengi

    Pengi

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    What's your source for this? It's been non-canon since Sonic Heroes, when was it "then canon again"?
     
  15. BlackHole

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    This post. It's come up a couple of times in here.
     
  16. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    That post doesn’t say it became canon, it say they let him write about the characters online. He also didn’t have access to any kind of series bible, which makes me wonder if maybe SEGA of Japan didn’t really care much about the European branch when it came to stuff like this.
     
  17. Pengi

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    Are you referring to "So it could easily change - something that people like to ignore I said so as to deem everything I wrote entirely invalidated after Iizuka implied Chaotix was canon."?

    For context, here's what he said when people asked about that:

    https://board.sonicstadium.org/topi...-to-mars/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-964741

    https://board.sonicstadium.org/topi...-to-mars/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-964744

    So the source for "Chaotix is canon again" was some rando in a long lost Sega board thread.

    He says it was "Knuckles' Chaotix" that he wasn't allowed to mention on Sonic City, so it sounds like he's talking about the 32X game itself. He talked about it a bit more here: https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?posts/908700/
     
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  18. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Well. Aside from the 8-bit titles and the arcade games, this is quite easy for the most part.
     
  19. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    The worlds themselves as a whole separated once and the reason why they did was also the reason why fully merging them together again was a bad thing they had to stop at all costs. Someone will probably be able to provide a fuller context of this since I don't remember that show enough, but the two worlds constantly merging and separating or staying separate but without restrictions on how to go from one to the other is quite different and quite absurd if you ask me.
     
  20. BlackHole

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    8:02 for the explanation.
     
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