The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    26 vote(s)
    21.0%
  2. I hate it

    42 vote(s)
    33.9%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    17 vote(s)
    13.7%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    39 vote(s)
    31.5%
  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    In the Welcome to the World of Sonic book, in the Sonic Rush section, Eggman Nega is said to be Eggman's counterpart.

    It makes sense because Sonic Rush actually said so, but this was supposedly retconned since Rivals. And his profile on Sonic Channel still matches Rivals'.
    But now that Rivals are non canon, maybe Eggman Nega is gonna be from the Sol Dimension again?

    (there is no Sonic Rivals section in the book)



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  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    See, I figured there was something amiss with Nega simply because he's the only actual 'counterpart'.

    Blaze is not "Blaze Nega" with another Blaze running around the Chaos Dimension. The Sol Emeralds are not the Nega Emeralds. Why is Nega the only 'Nega' counterpart?
     
  3. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    No worries, sorry for the confusing post, I wrote that in kind of a rush. I'll try to clarify my thought process a bit:

    Yes, the Sol Dimension is being considered the future of Sonic's dimension. So the parts that are in Blaze's dimension are in the future of that same timeline. I'm interpreting Sonic 06 as depicting a different future, with the branch being caused by Solaris being split into Iblis and Mephiles; saying "Eggman Nega did it" was me inserting some explanation for said timeline's creation out of the original one; saying "he called himself Penders" was a joke, referencing the fact that it effectively retconned the timeline I placed Chronicles in.

    Speaking of Chronicles, I didn't really think about its ending. I used to have it segue into Unleashed (with some unseen war inbetween), but I'm testing a different thing here. I mainly bothered to include it at all at this point because of the gizoid stuff (I like gizoid stuff). Its inclusion isn't that important, though.

    re: Triple Trouble: Yes, I'm interpreting the "stranger" line as Sonic just not expecting to see him, and having 3K be Knuckles' first meeting with Sonic (years prior, so they hadn't seen each other for a while, to boot); either way I'm mostly just saying "Sonic meets Fang in 1994"; if I had to invent another timeline where "Triple Trouble's events as depicted in the game proper" take place, I could.

    I didn't bother trying to fit every game in (David the Lurker already did God's work there), I largely wanted to see what interesting consequences, if any, confining myself to a couple of specific interpretations would have for some much discussed placement "puzzles".

    Finally:
    Fuck, is Silver 200 years in the future? It's been too long since I actually played 06, getting it's numbers mixed up with SA2's lol. I'll have to tweak the future dates then!

    - Sonic Adventure 2 happens in 2001.
    - Sonic Advance 2 happens in 2002.
    - Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog happen here. Maybe Heroes happens in 2002 and Shadow in 2003? Maybe both happen in 2002? Maybe both happen in 2003?
    - Sonic Battle happens in 2003.

    I'm saying Battle gets first dibs over Heroes on "happening when it released", since it came out a few weeks earlier. Relegating Heroes (and by extension Shadow) as happening no later than 2003, rather than placing Sonic Battle as happening no earlier than 2005 (as I would do if I instead gave Heroes dibs on "happening when it released"). If that makes sense.
     
  4. Ah, I see
     
  5. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I asked about Chronicles because Eggman Nega was trying to change the future in Rivals (and maybe in Rush, who the fuck knows at this point). If Eggman Nega came from the future to start the Solaris Project, which eventually erased Chronicles from existance, I imagine Eggman lost the war in Chronicles too. If not, Eggman Nega wouldn't have any reason to do that.


    It's just a nickname after all, isn't it? It doesn't make much sense, but since Eggman is just a nickname and we don't know why he likes that nickname, maybe there is a reason why Eggman Nega uses the name Eggman Nega and we just don't know.

    I'm assuming that Sonic Team is not going to retcon Eggman's name and say that Eggman is his real and only name. This would make no sense at all since his grandfather's name is still Gerald Robotnik.
     
  6. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Remember the huge Chaos Control that Eggman performed at the beginning of Sonic Advance 3 that split up the world in seven parts like in Sonic Unleashed? What if that never happened?

    First of all: the game itself doesn't show that. Eggman indeed did something with a green Chaos Emerald (I'm assuming it is a Chaos Emerald and not some other gem), but we don't see anything like a world shattered in pieces. Instead, the game says Eggman is planning to use the Chaos Emeralds to build Eggmanland.
    Second of all: none of the characters seem to be worried about the world. When Sonic finds Cream, he asks what was she doing there and she answers she was taking a walk with Cheese.
    Third of all: the statement about the Chaos Control only exists in the American manual, not the Japanese manual. We all know how this sort of thing worked in the 90s. And the American manual says nothing about Eggmanland, which the game itself does.
    Fourth of all: the Welcome to the World of Sonic book only mentions that Sonic and Tails got split up from their friends, which actually happens in the game, but again it says nothing about the world being in pieces.

    So maybe this never happened? This would answer why Dark Gaia didn't show up.

    Edit: in the "bad" ending, the Master Emerald does something and the dark red sky becomes blue again. I guess this is the only in-game evidence of a broken world? Even so, it is very ambiguous, it could be anything.

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  7. _Sidle

    _Sidle

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    If I'm interpreting this TL proposal correctly (big if there), you've twisted the "dimension" aspect of the Sol Dimension to be Sonic's world in the future (to try and explain away Nega being Eggman's descendant), then immediately deleting everything regarding Rush (+ Adventure (and also Chronicles too I guess)) to make way for Solaris (then Ifrit (then Ruby Takeover (then PEACEEE))) and never being restored.

    I'd believe the existence of the Sol Emeralds would necessitate it not being the future, due to the damage potential that can generate when the Sol and Chaos Emeralds are attracted together. (The ChEms and MasterEm wouldn't just be gone, considering they persisted since at minimum 4000 years ago in Knuckles Clan times onward to Silver's era 200 years in the future.)
     
  8. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    While the validity of the Rivals series as canon is in question at the moment, the Master Emerald is also stated to be a unique transcendental object that exists simultaneously in all timelines across the time-space continuum.
    In Rivals, Eggman-Nega states: "Since the Master Emerald is a unique object that exists across the time-space continuum... When the future emerald was turned into a card, its existence in all the time frames vanished as well.", explaining why it was missing in that game. If it was suddenly gone from Silver's timeframe, it would be gone across all of time including Sonic's present.
     
  9. Pengi

    Pengi

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    The official stance Sonic Team settled on (years and years ago) is that Silver and Eggman Nega are from the future and Blaze is from another dimension. Iizuka mentioned this at Sonic Boom 2012 and it's reflected in their Sonic Channel profiles.

    Additionally, the background information text accompanying Eggman Nega's Sonic Channel comic says this about his role in Sonic Rush:

    エッグマンネガの登場タイトルは『ソニックラッシュ』! Dr.エッグマンと手を組み、ブレイズの住む世界へと悪の手を伸ばしました。残酷でズル賢い悪役キャラクターとして登場しましたが、その言動は、あのブレイズを本気で怒らせるほどでしたよ!

    DeepL translated:

    Eggman Negga's first title was Sonic Rush! He teamed up with Dr. Eggman and extended his evil hand to the world where Blaze lives. He appeared as a cruel and unfair villain, but his words and actions were enough to make Blaze really angry!

    The Sonic Adventure guidebook says Tikal's era was 3000 years ago.

    Sonic Battle (and Sonic Channel) says that Emerl is 4000 years old.

    Sonic Chronicles said that both eras were 4000 years ago. But Sonic Chronicles is non-canon.
     
  10. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    But this is from a time when Sonic Rivals wasn't non canon. Rivals is the only game that claims Eggman Nega is from the future. Things might be changing now.
     
  11. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Evan Stanley's "The Silver Age" story, where she was asked not to use Onyx Island, was published in 2015.

    The 25th anniversary Sonic Channel comics are from 2016.

    http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicChannel/special/comic/25th/20161014_001182/

    It doesn't refer to the events of Sonic Rivals, but it does maintain the backstory that Eggman Nega is Dr. Eggman's descendant from the future.
     
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  12. I always thought the world in 7 pieces was in reference to the zones. That explains why there's that shining rainbow void between each zone that the characters traverse through to get to the next- the chaos control split the world between 7 pocket dimensions, and the Master Emerald had the power to undo it.
     
  13. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It also warped them heavily, apparently. Sunset Hill Zone is apparently Green Hill Zone outright, warped by Robotnik's shenanigans.
     
  14. Pengi

    Pengi

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    What is your source for this?
     
  15. Yeah, I'm curious too.

    That aside, I did always consider sunset hill to be the true modern day form of green hill zone, and not the one seen in generations or forces (which is just based off of gens anyway)
     
  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    http://sonic.sega.jp/advance3/zone02.html
    Might be a misunderstanding of this, since it's saying "The classic sea, green and land stage(s) of the series", coupled with the Green Hill Zone music.

    The 'warped' aspect stems from the change in background when the Master Emerald becomes active at the end, I believe.
     
  17. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Okay. That doesn't indicate that it's literally Green Hill Zone or that it's been warped. That is speculation.
     
  18. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    It’s probably all of those kinds of areas meshed together via space time shenanigans, or at least that’s how it reads to me. There’s like a billion Sonic levels that fit that description...
     
  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Oh, I like that interpretation. It does fit the bill, like Green Hill Zone, Emerald Hill Zone, etc, have been mashed into one...
     
  20. Pengi

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    Isn't it just saying that it's a traditional tropical level, but with a sunset?