The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    24 vote(s)
    20.3%
  2. I hate it

    42 vote(s)
    35.6%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    17 vote(s)
    14.4%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    35 vote(s)
    29.7%
  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    So you're saying Sonic Forces is an illusionary world the Phantom Ruby created in response to Robotnik's desire to win, while Sonic's will to stop it corrupted it upon his presence, hence why Modern Sonic breaks out when Classic Sonic enters the scene?

    I like it.
     
  2. Damn lol
     
  3. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    Ah I see what you're getting at then. Again, I wouldn't use the term "split" for that, I'd use the term "overwritten" to differentiate it from what happened with the classic timeline, but fundamentally I think we both agree on what's going on here. The ruined future from 06 did exist, but after the events of 06 were overwritten, that timeline got sent to white space where it was discarded. In a way, the White Space is similar to "The Darkness Beyond Time" from the Chrono Trigger & Chrono Cross games which is a "wastebasket for discarded [or overwritten] timelines". I do have theories for why a split happened rather than an overwrite in regards to the classic dimension, but I posted that in this thread a bit back already and it'd be redundant to post again.

    I can see your point about CD, I remembered it just as I hit post. Given that time is strange on that planet, I guess it's safe to say that timeline changes are confined to that planet and will fluctuate however they please. Having a planet in a state of temporal flux certainly makes all of the temporal mechanics of this series all the more bizarre lol.
     
  4. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    Ah I see what you're getting at then. Again, I wouldn't use the term "split" for that, I'd use the term "overwritten" to differentiate it from what happened with the classic timeline, but fundamentally I think we both agree on what's going on here. The ruined future from 06 did exist, but after the events of 06 were overwritten, that timeline got sent to white space where it was discarded. In a way, the White Space is similar to "The Darkness Beyond Time" from the Chrono Trigger & Chrono Cross games which is a "wastebasket for discarded [or overwritten] timelines". I do have theories for why a split happened rather than an overwrite in regards to the classic dimension, but I posted that in this thread a bit back already and it'd be redundant to post again.

    I can see your point about CD, I remembered it just as I hit post. Given that time is strange on that planet, I guess it's safe to say that timeline changes are confined to that planet and will fluctuate however they please. Having a planet in a state of temporal flux certainly makes all of the temporal mechanics of this series all the more bizarre lol.


    I dunno what to think about Forces' placement. Clearly, it does happen and, according to word of god (Izuka & Christian), Classic Sonic is the same Sonic from the past in Generations and does currently hail from an alternate dimension in relation to the Modern Sonic timeline. Occam's Razor would suggest that a split in the timeline occurred and the two timelines are now being referred to as dimensions. The issues with the Phantom Ruby changing function can easily be explained as Modern Eggman reverse engineering a mysterious stone he had never seen before.

    I get there's an inclination to want to disregard what Izuka says in regards to canon (believe me, the two worlds thing is nuts and I'm hoping it's going to be discarded), but as much as we may disagree with his decisions he would still be the authority on how things work in the series. Head-canon and speculation is great and all, but I do think we need to remember that a lot of this has been spelled out for us already.

    That said, great job on your timeline! I don't want you to think I despise it or anything, it really is an impressive effort, I just don't think it's accurate, unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    At least until I do some mad ploy to get into SEGA and take over the series, make my timeline canon and make the best damn Sonic the Hedgehog game ever made. :eng99:
     
  6. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    Nah man, Aaron, Christian, Ian, and Evan got you beat to the punch :ruby:
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    [​IMG]

    But seriously, I don't like the idea of timeline splits. I allow it for The Legend of Zelda because the Ocarina of Time split is a simple one that doesn't cause headaches (no, Downfall is not a split from Ocarina of Time, but that's a whole different subject). It just feels wrong to have Classic and Modern be split.
     
  8. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    That is why I (am trying to) create my timeline in a mix between word-of-god and headcanon. I fit everything I can, in a way that mostly agrees with the real canon. When there's a game that is disregarded by Sonic Team but I don't think it should be, I place it in a dead timeline so it is canon but it also isn't.

    If it weren't for Forces, both two-Sonics and two-worlds concepts could be disregarded with no problem. It's like they made that game only to change the canon.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Even then, you can retcon that with little issue.

    Sonic Mania > Sonic Mania Plus: Encore Mode > Phantom Ruby destroyed > New Phantom Ruby created > Sonic Forces.

    Boom, single timeline.

    Two Worlds? I see no two worlds, I see South Island and a Earth being messed around by the illusions.
     
  10. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    You would have to decanonize the Forces prequel comics, because Eggman found the Phantom Ruby and didn't know what it was.
     
  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    And I would, yes. They pose continuity problems with Sonic Forces already.
     
  12. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    Don't forget to include "Flicky" as an origin game, and also "Dynamite Dux" if you include Sonic The Fighters.

    Jokes aside, a bad ending for the first game could cause the timeline split for 8-bit games, 8-bit S1 following the main version as a second round of sorts.

    Oh, and SCD had a single good ending but achieved through two different methods, so you might want to make a difference between the artisan work of personally destroying the robot machines and going mystic by collecting the mcguffins and obliterating all those machines with their power. And there's those Metal Sonic holograms too...
     
  13. Kinda like what I was trying to do, but using the good ending. But if we're counting different endings as timeline splits, then this works too
     
  14. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I've seen around the internet that the most-canon-possible path in Shadow the Hedgehog is N-N-D-H-H-D
    [​IMG]
    https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/926672-shadow-the-hedgehog/71024589
    https://twitter.com/SonicLorepost/status/1309248754499940360
    https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/4ygww7/shadow_the_hedgehog_canon_path/

    Does anyone know if this is still valid or if it has been debunked? This post claims there is impossible to have a unique canon path.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  15. Hey, just double checked Sonic Chronicles's ending again, and they never actually said eggman conquered the entire world in their extended absence.

    Was that ever officially stated anywhere?
     
  16. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    They talk about it in a post-credit discussion between Tails and Sonic which breaks the fourth-wall.


    Around 1:27 in the video.
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The 'Together with Maria' path.



    Honestly, the only issue with that path is the ending, where Shadow goes Knuckles and proclaims himself the Guardian of the ARK, kicking Robotnik off an intending to live in isolation upon it.

    But I suppose you could make a minor retcon and say he went over to the Black Comet to deal with Black Doom before enacting the plan, and deciding against it once he learns the truth during the Last Story: that he was intended to defend Earth from the Black Arms.
     
  18. No, that's my point, I said I double checked it myself lol. They just say that Eggman "built up an army" and they didn't recognize the world when they got back, as though they'd "been gone for years". It's never directly specified whether or not Eggman has complete control of the world (I think they would've specified) and the passage of time and size of his army is also vague.

    If it's never officially stated anywhere, then I've got a headcannon incoming :p
     
  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood > Sonic Forces?


    The built up army mentioned stemming from the Phantom Ruby?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  20. Actually no- I've still gotta fact check some stuff, but I'm thinking it actually leads into the riders games- specifically Zero gravity