While leaving behind the biggest civilization that was literally right next to the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald when everything went to pot?
At this point, I assume that the Chaos Emeralds, like the three pieces of the Triforce at the end of Wind Waker, teleport/vanish/scatter after they're used for a super form (in the triforce's case, a wish). It's the only explanation for why they keep ending up in different places between games, especially in direct sequels like SA -> SA2, where they literally have all of them physically there for the Perfect Chaos scene, but they're inexplicably all over the place in SA2. It's implied by Sonic's Final Smash in Smash Bros too, as while the chaos emeralds don't fly in to help him transform, they definitely scatter when he leaves the super.
I think that was definitely a thing in Sonic X which, while supplemental, shouldn't be entirely discounted for that reason. Back to the "two worlds" stuff momentarily, I recall reading on TVTropes that Ian Flynn said (likely on Bumblekast) that other humans exist in Sonic's world in the IDW book but haven't had a plot-relevant reason to show up yet, so I think if the two worlds stuff was ever a thing outside of Sonic X, SEGA may be quietly retiring it, which I think would absolutely be for the best.
Indeed. If they want to give people freedom to decide on if Sonic's World is a thing, just call it "the world". It's vague enough that you can have it be Earth or Mobius, while not having it be awkward when characters say things "The Deadly Six will conquer Eggman's World!", instead of the more phonetically pleasing "The Deadly Six will conquer the world!" Speaking of IDW, don't they have Central City from Shadow the Hedgehog?
According to the IDW Sonic wiki, Zones and locations originating from the video games include GHZ, Metropolis (specifically the Forces iteration, though it's anybody's guess whether it's the same locale as Sonic 2's version), Mystic Jungle, Angel Island, Ice Paradise and the Lost Hex. The context for these appearing or being mentioned make it reasonable to assume that they exist geographically on the world featured in the book. Further to this, we've seen Tails' Workshop which I believe is in Central City, something the wiki corroborates. The wiki also has this to say: Now for what it's worth I don't think Forces' world map is at all trustworthy, nor do I think it was intended to be. It's a pretty abstract representation and makes some pretty odd blunders, such as placing Green Hill on a continent rather than an island.
Honestly, I chalk Forces up to the Phantom Ruby doing its work. To deal with Green Hill, I just imagine Robotnik had South Island 'attached' to Dust Hill Zone, so the island is currently slammed into West Side Island.
Umm... Really? I haven't seen anywhere that reference to Perfect Chaos, and the civilization referenced in Sonic 2 is not given a name and no one says its the same as in S3K. It's the logical answer. ... The funniest thing here is that we only see a single human in the classic games, but there are tons of cities in the backgrounds, pictures in Sandopolis tileset, etc. Anthros, on the other hand, may be more, but how many are there from each species in games prior to Sonic Boom besides the Echidna tribe? 4 hedgehogs, 2 cats, 2 rabbits who are mom and daughter, and the rest are 1 of each species. Remember, Sonic's friends used to be little non-ahtro animals before any other anthro showed up. The Echidna tribe is the only real anthro population shown and the only identified ancient civilization. If I'm saying this is because everything related to a world of anthros were Robotnik is the intruder comes from the western comics and shows, and it was not until Sonic X that japanese made something similar, and it would affect the official games the moment they adapted those, so there would be no need for having two worlds if it wans't because non-game media made such a explicit distinction, the later one happening after human populations had already appeared in games. In other words, from a games-only viewpoint, not only it should be a single world, but it would make more sense that furries live in a world mostly belonging to humans than the opposite thing. Truth's probably that furries survived in a human world by staying at isolated islands and that Robotnik is the cause their existence (non-extinction) has been revealed to the rest of the human population.
https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3/Manuals#Knuckles_the_Echidna_profile It's from the Japanese manual. The egg is actually the Master Emerald, containing Chaos.
Yes, but that's not a reference to Perfect Chaos, it's more like they took advantage of that for Sonic Adventure and made a plot twist. By the time of S3K, I think the Death Egg was the only egg they wanted to reference, even if they had the monster Chaos in mind way before Sonic Adventure was made.
So it still leads into Sonic Adventure. They used a plot element they introduced in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles and tied it directly to the plot of Sonic Adventure. Pre-planned or not, that's still an outright connection between the classics and Adventure titles.
Yes, yes, but your wording was misleading, like you were claiming there was an official source claiming it was planned. I wasn't trying to argue how SA1 referenced classic games, just saying classic games don't reference SA1.
I said they lead into the Adventure games. They talk of an ancient civilization that was wiped out (The Echidna) and the legendary dragon (Perfect Chaos), which does lead into what happens in Sonic Adventure. Lead in does not mean planned from the start, just that elements tie into the other. I seem to recall some Knuckles concept art which featured mostly classic Knuckles, but had a random Modern Knuckles on it. What was that about? (Oh, also, evidence of them referring to different time periods as other 'worlds': Silver in Sonic Rivals calls the present "your world" and the future "my world") Spoiler (So time periods are considered different 'worlds' as well. Should be easy enough to pretend this is what they meant once SEGA quietly can the three worlds thing.)
Dude stop covering your ass and admit you fucked up lmao Sonic 3 does not reference Perfect Chaos and Sonic 2 does not reference any echidnas because, guess what, those characters hadn't been invented yet The egg is... the egg. As in, the big ass Death Egg that crashed into the island. Knuckles doesn't fear the Master Emerald, he protects it, and he's completely baffled when Chaos breaks out of it in Sonic Adventure
That would imply that I have. And yet, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 talks about, and quote: (Skip to 3:29, please) But if you can provide an alternate civilization that misused the Chaos Emeralds and ruined everything in a single night, by all means provide them. Hence his error in identifying the Death Egg as the egg of the legendary dragon. The Master Emerald is shattered (the 'egg' is hatched) and Chaos is released (the legendary dragon is born and brings disaster) in Sonic Adventure. Again, if you can find another legendary dragon that brings disaster, by all means link it here.
I think Sonic Team fished those pieces of lore and refitted them for SA1's backstory. Lore retconning, so to say.
Indeed. The Classic Games make a few references to "the Lost Civilization", actually. Aforementioned examples in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, Chaotix also gets in on it:
This is the dragon referenced in the manual. The legend in the Chaos Emerald altar is the mural we see in Hidden Palace Zone. Super Sonic was going to fight a dragon in outer space. The original idea seems to be that Sonic would destroy the Death Egg (Death Egg Zone) but then have to contend with a (mecha?) dragon that "hatched" from it (Doomsday Zone). Of course, by the time Sonic & Knuckles released, the dragon was replaced by an Eggman mech, and the mural in Hidden Palace Zone depicted Super Sonic fighting an Eggman figure instead. No, he confirmed that Sonic's World and the Human World are separate. Ian answered a question about this on Bumblekast. His rationale is that there's a Central City in the human world (Shadow the Hedgehog) and a Central City in Sonic's world (Sonic Battle). The comic is using the latter.
Seems a bit out there for Robotnik to have a giant dragon mecha in his Death Egg and not have employed it by now. Clearly, it's concept for Perfect Chaos, and the game was supposed to have the Master Emerald shattered by the end. :specialed: (I'm joking, but I can't seem to find the strikethrough option to make that clear). Sounds like he's just trying to make sense of the random two worlds concept they threw into the lore.
Yes this is an example of actual retconning. The term doesn't imply a contradiction, it's just the act of retroactively adding details to elements already in the continuity. Sort of dating myself here, but Desmond is not at the bottom of the hatch during season 1, he's only there starting from season 2, because that's when he was written into the story. He was written so that chronologically he was always down there, but narratively he wasn't there until season 2. In the same manner you cannot say that Sonic 2 references the Echidnas or Sonic 3 references Chaos because those characters did not exist yet. Story elements from those games were eventually fleshed out into those characters later on in the series, but that is only Sonic Adventure referencing the Sonic 3 manual text and not the other way around.
I don't really have much to say about the rest of this, but this passage only exists because they very likely originally had a much larger scope in mind for Sonic 2, more in line with what became Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles. There's honestly a lot of evidence pointing to this in the Japanese manual, including a huge forest fire started by Eggman before Sonic 2 begins. Sounds familiar, right?
