The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    27 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. I hate it

    45 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    19 vote(s)
    14.1%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    44 vote(s)
    32.6%
  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    That is quite interesting. I always rely on Christian Whitehead's tweet to make my split timeline post-Generations because it is the most almost-official statement about it.
     
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    If I've learned anything from The Legend of Zelda theorising, it's don't trust the developers words. They tend to confuse details. Like A Link to the Past being a sequel to the original games, rather than a prequel.
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I trust developers words when they agree with me.
     
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  4. Pengi

    Pengi

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    (49m 32s)

    In the 2018 panel all they say is that the Classic Sonic in Generations is the same Classic Sonic in Mania and Forces. They don't offer an explanation.

    EDIT:

    2019 panel:


    (58m 45s)

    Here they get into the weeds a bit more (but just a bit). Someone may want to provide a literal translation of Iizuka's response.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
  5. Just wanna mention:

    Doesn't Sonic R have significant 3d blast theming in resort island? Flickies for one?
     
  6. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I tried to make an alternative version of my Classic Era, now including all the Game Gear titles and the arcade titles (such as Sonic the Fighters and those weird popcorn and traffic stuff).

    upload_2021-7-18_16-53-34.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  7. This actually makes sense to me. If no one's got a rebuttal, I'm personally going to accept this as unofficially official o-o
     
  8. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I don't know, there are too many tweaks to make it right. Basically I had to create a whole background for Sonic the Fighters and the entire plot of Sonic Pocket Adventure.

    And the split between 16-bit and 8-bit is kinda forced (why wouldn't the six Chaos Emeralds get reunited with the seventh one?), but the split to fit Sonic Chronicles in the Adventure Era is as forced as this, I think.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    What's causing the timeline split for the Game Gear game timeline? Honestly, it's why I keep timeline splits to a minimum.
     
  10. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    That's what I was saying. I don't have a satisfactory explanation for that.

    Unless you see the 8-bit branch as just an imaginative branch. Like, those games never happened at all, but they would if the six Chaos Emeralds had never left South Island after Sonic 1.
     
  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I recall one person having it be in Elise's possession, and Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) being the end of the Game Gear (plus similar Adventure events) that was wiped out and the seventh Chaos Emerald brought back into the proper mix.
     
  12. Roller

    Roller

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    That was my suggestion, BlackHole! That the timeline would operate very similarly up until they happened upon Soleanna, and the universe "soft-resetted" (I'm tempted to call it "post-scratch" too, but that'd be a little too indulgent). I lost a little confidence in that idea when my thoughts about Blaze in 06 were pretty definitively shut down in this very thread, but it was a handy little narriative device that threaded together surprisingly well for being something spun out whole-cloth out of the thinnest of connections.

    I'm mixed on the shape of raphael_fc's timeline. The extra non-Generations splits feels unjustifiable, but that's already been pointed out. My major issue not currently spotlighted is the idea that Sonic and Eggman met before SegaSonic. SEGA saying S1 comes first makes thematic sense even if it's not IDEAL as a starting point, fans saying SegaSonic comes first makes sense vis a vis his comparitive vulnerability, but having some unknown original meeting predate either of those feels utterly bonkers.

    I also think it's complete folly to keep track of the Chaos Emeralds so precisely as the sole evidence for putting Tails Adventure so early; in vintage lore there's multiple emerald sets, and in present-day lore there's just seven and they tend to perform miracles on the regular; either explanation makes this link pointless. For out-of-universe reasons vis a vis Tails' deal I would be hard-pressed to consider it anything other than happening post S3, if it happens in the Modern soft-reset timeline at all.

    (That is more words than I intended to write, lol.)
     
  13. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I confess I don't quite understand the sequence of events in Sonic 06 so I can't say what happens to any of the Emeralds. But I think it would be very convoluted to use this game for that, because it is already very confusing.

    I also don't like that one bit (or 8 bits :ruby:). My main attempt considers the 8-bit titles as another universe, thus they don't belong here.

    That was because Sonic 1 manual claims there were a few fights between Sonic and Eggman before (more than one, to say the least). While SegaSonic works fine as a prequel to Sonic 1 in some sense, I don't think it works as their first encounter ever, because there is no indication of that. The game wasn't developed as if it were their first encounter.

    Tails Adventure happens before Sonic 2 anyway, because he didn't met Sonic yet. The location of the Chaos Emeralds served only as an indication of where should the game be placed exactly. In a 8-bit-universe-exclusively, Tails Adventure would probably be the first or second game on the chronology.
     
  14. Has Sega/Sonic Team explicitly stated that Sonic 1 came first when not referring to its release as the initial entry in the series? The manual for S1 even states that this was not Sonic's first encounter with Eggman, lending credence to SegaSonic potentially happening prior to S1. I prefer that placement, although I suppose that game is similar to the case of CD where they can be placed in a multitude of slots in the timeline.
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    SEGASonic the Hedgehog is ambiguous. We can't assume anything from the character's abilities, since Ray the Flying Squirrel isn't just flying over half the levels as one would assume he could. It's simply balance to let all three characters play the same for fairness amongst the 3-player system.

    There's no real background story to go off (trust me, I've looked), it's just another Sonic vs Robotnik fight with Mighty and Ray caught up.

    The blue box is what is translated:
    [​IMG]
    Also, they used the name Robotnik in the flyer. Random tidbit.

    The most you could glean is that Sonic is known at this point, since it refers to him as "The Super Star", and even then that's more likely to be addressing his status to us, since the English translation at the bottom says "the SEGA Super Star", but flavour text in translations...
     
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  16. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    We can never assume anything from any character's abilities. They come and go as they please.

    Not even Classic Sonic learning the homing attack at the end of Generations should be a hint for anything lore-wise.
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I like to think of that as why he knows the Insta-Shield/Double Spin Attack in Sonic the Hedgehog 3, he's using the 'shield' that appears when he does it without doing the actual technique.
     
  18. Prototype

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    SEGASonic works fine as a Sonic 1 prequel, if only that it works in a narrative sense with Robotnik capturing "Funny Animals" (or "Mobians" or whatever terminology you prefer) presumably for the same reason he captures the little animal buddies in the main games, and thus being responsible for creating his own worst enemy.

    The subsequent escape and victory of these super-powered animals could be the very reason why Robotnik resorts to using comparatively weaker animal buddies for robotics until he revisits the capture method in Chaotix.
     
  19. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    I assume Sonic had already met Eggman some times before SegaSonic, but last of those times it was the first one the hedgehog really pissed off the doctor (stopping some grand scheme for the first time or something like that), hence this early vengeance against who was still a wannabe hero. Sonic's victory at the end of the game would be why Eggman finally considers Sonic a threat and a nemesis, while Sonic would finally gather all the bravery and self-confidence after surviving a near-death situation and seeing the doctor flee.
     
  20. Roller

    Roller

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    Don't have a ton to say about the other points, but this absolutely warrants a mea culpa. I haven't dived into old manuals as much as I would have liked to. I really am a second-rate hogscholar...