The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    31 vote(s)
    19.6%
  2. I hate it

    60 vote(s)
    38.0%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    19 vote(s)
    12.0%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    48 vote(s)
    30.4%
  1. big smile

    big smile

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    I think Sonic does redeem Merlina in Black Knight? I think?
    Anyway, in Sonic Runners, Merlina pops up for the Easter Egg tournament that Sonic and the gang are participating in. Omochao asks Sonic to show her around and then no more story cut scenes are shown. I think there was something wrong with that story, as all the other stories were much longer. I'm betting the full story wasn't released.

    This is all from memory, so I could be a bit off, but I think I'm right.
     
  2. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    SNOIC GENERATONS PLUS
    From left to right:

    -Rough stone / raw ore
    (not used in Mania)

    -Finished product

    -Prototype model
    (used in Mania)

    So basically the one on the left is the original source and the other ones are just attempts at refining it. I’m guessing that chunk was what Eggman was meant to find in the prequel comic but it was drawn like one of the prototypes.
    How did one of the prototypes make it to the Mania world/time and why did it look slightly different and have non-illusory powers? No use wondering because we will never ever know.


    Also if you’re using seasonal/crossover events from Runners as canon you’ll have to count all the stuff like the Puyo Puyo Crossover too. Why not just treat the main story as canon and not the things that are just promotional events for getting items related to other games like the Storybook ones?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    To be fair, that was a success. He wanted Dark Gaia out of the planet and he got it. It was the follow-up plan that went wrong, and even then it was mostly a success: He actually built Eggmanland.

    Like Shiara in the opening of Sonic and the Secret Rings?

    He does.

    Also, this is kind of a reason I wasn't including it. Mobile games tend to be crossover heavy.
     
  4. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I'm very confused. Does this mean the Phantom Ruby seen in Mania was a prototype from Forces?
    The real Phantom Ruby appeared first in Forces, then Eggman studied it and created a bunch of prototypes in an attempt to clone it, and one of the prototypes went wrong with dimensional effects instead of virtual reality ones and it traveled to Mania? Like: Forces (prequel and beginning) -> Mania -> Forces -> Mania Plus?

    Or was this all scrapped?
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Welcome to the chaos that is incompetent lore.
     
  6. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I mean, that is not entirely absurd. The fact that both the Phantom Ruby and Sonic from Mania went to Forces at the same time, but the Phantom Ruby arrived more than 6 months before Sonic, always bothered me. If the original stone is from Forces and one of the prototypes went to Mania, I think the timing makes more sense.
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Honestly, I go with the idea the Phantom Ruby was destroyed at the end of Sonic Mania (Encore Mode being it's death throws as it tries to take Sonic with it). Robotnik, having studied it, spent a great amount of time trying to replicated it and eventually succeeded with an imperfect copy, but since he took the readings while everyone was caught up in the illusions, they transferred over. Classic Sonic pops out because Tails called for Sonic, and his own willpower keeps him active.

    Evidence being Classic Sonic fades out at the end of Sonic Forces like every other phantom, rather than being transported back via portal.
     
  8. Overlord

    Overlord

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    So Classic in Forces is actually just Tails' imagination, not actually real? Excellent! That means we can entirely ignore the whole "other dimension" bollocks and it's confirmed that Sonic just made a mistake when he said it. Mania is Modern's past, nothing more. =P
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    We can treat other dimension as a mistranslation of 'other world' which is what different eras of time are often called, especially in Sonic Rivals 2 where Espio and Silver treat the present and future as two separate worlds.

    Otherwise, yes, Classic Sonic is a Phantom, but on the Hero's side through Sonic's sheer willpower.
     
  10. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    But Tails didn't have any prototype of the Phantom Ruby to have his wish fulfilled.
    Besides, I remember seeing somewhere that Sonic Mania Plus states that Classic Sonic returned after fighting in Forces.
     
  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I'm of the opinion the whole world was under the Phantom Ruby's illusion, interfering with everyone's perception. Hence why Earth's continents look weird (screw the Sonic's World bs), Green Hill was filled with sand, etc. Consider: do you think Infinite was continuously controlling the Zavok Phantom while on the Death Egg? Doesn't Zavok also conjure up elements? Where'd they come from if the Phantom Ruby is required? There's a point where the Phantom Effect becomes passive and doesn't require direct influence.

    It was all under Infinite's control, of course, but Sonic is just that wilful he reforms from the Phantom Ruby's prior interaction from the Passive Phantom Effect without Infinite being able to establish control, despite his Phantom nature. Phantom Sonic is still Sonic, after all.

    Of course, I don't buy for a second this is the intent of the story, but I like to think I'm bsing it better.

    EDIT: Also, ignoring the alternate dimension story BS.

    EDIT 2: Actually, anyone have the Sonic Mania Plus digital manual with Encore Mode's plot in it? I can't find it, and I want to look at the Japanese version of the plot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  12. Pengi

    Pengi

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  13. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    Just to throw it out there, but the Encore manual was likely written in English first by the Mania team (with Sega's oversight) and later translated into Japanese. If we really want to go off original intent here, the English manual is better equipped for that than the Japanese one in this case, much like 3D Blast which was developed by British studio Travelers Tales.
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I'll have it translated. See if I can try loopholing it. If not, I'll just Sonic the Hedgehog 4 it. Is that manual anywhere online any more other than archived like here, do you know? All I can find is the standard manual which doesn't mention Encore Mode.

    Eh, I go with the Japanese to have some form of consistency, especially since Japanese has nuances translations tend to miss, like the Big Rings leading to subspace, not Dimensional Rings to alternate dimensions. The former matches to Sonic the Hedgehog (Mega Drive), so there's consistency present in the Japanese manuals that isn't in the English manuals.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  15. Pengi

    Pengi

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    http://manual.sega.jp/sonicmania/?pid=0

    Disliking something doesn't make it non-canon. Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic exist in separate dimensions. Classic Sonic went from Sonic Mania (Mania Mode) to Sonic Forces to Sonic Mania (Encore Mode). This is the current series canon.
     
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  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Like how Sonic and Knuckles' stories take place at the same time in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles?
     
  17. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I think I'm gonna decanonize Chronicles off of my timeline. I've placed it in a dead timeline after Lost World, replaced by the events of Forces, but I don't think it belongs there.

    Chronicles is on Earth, with GUN, no wisps... it screams 2004~2009 (which is when it was made indeed). It is not supposed to be placed in parallel with Forces.

    I want to find a dead timeline in that era to place it, but I can't. Sonic 06, Rush series and Rivals series don't work.
     
  18. Pengi

    Pengi

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    No.

    Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic living in separate dimensions is a premise established by Sonic Team. It's a premise that is still in effect, and the reason why Ray and Mighty aren't allowed in the main IDW Sonic comic.
     
  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    And it's a particularly stupid idea that I'm electing to ignore in favour of the original concept from Sonic Generations, where both are past and future incarnations.

    Besides, the Phantom Ruby further provides issues, since it turns up fully intact after being destroyed in Sonic Forces for Encore More. And a different shape, but this thing is proving a nightmare on continuity anyway.
     
  20. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    The idea of separating Classic and Modern Sonic after Generations is a thousand times better than pretending they were always separated. Because it's an explanation based on what the games showed, rather than nullifying everything that was said. The classic games that Modern Sonic went through are the same as Classic Sonic did, after all.

    The only difference this would make is the fact that Mighty and Ray are not in the Modern Sonic dimension. And their not being is not an immutable rule, because if Sonic Team wants there to be modern versions of them, there will be. City Escape in Generations already had a poster of them (acknowledging SegaSonic, but not Knuckles Chaotix), so it wouldn't be any problem.
    [​IMG]