Another thing we could do is just pretend Generations was this aberration and strike it and all mention of Classic Sonic being younger sonic canon. Either he's younger sonic or he's Sonic from another dimension and unless you adhere to multiverse theory (where post-generations Classic isn't the same Classic that grew up to be Modern), he can't be both. Maybe have a Generations 2 where instead of visiting different time periods, they visit different worlds. Josh touched on this with how he saw Classic and Adventure continuities as separate, why not do the same for Classic, Adventure and 06? and Unleashed? and Rush? and everything Colours onwards? and Generations if my "it's not canon" wish is met. Game Sonic has got like 7 continuities now, 8 if you include Boom.
Why strike the good game from the record when the bad game is the one causing problems? Even then, I'm opting for Force's usage of 'different world' to mean it in the same vein as: Classic's world is the World of the Past, Modern is the World of Tomorrow for him. Sorted. (They call it a different world in Japan, not a different dimension) Because you're just creating a mess of continuities that will just cause even more issue. We're having enough issues with the one canon, why on earth would you make more?
We've actually got Word of God on post-Generations Classic Sonic being its own "Mania Timeline:" https://twitter.com/CFWhitehead/status/1259501952590725125?s=20 Not that Sega would necessarily adhere to this. But if you want Classic Sonic to continue to move forward as its own distinct part of the brand that never transitions to Sonic Adventure, while still keeping the original Genesis games in-continuity for both modern and classic, this is a way to do it.
Yeah, I don't get that. Just say they're adventures Sonic had before Sonic Adventure, we don't need some sort of time-breaking event to put Sonic Mania and any following Classic-style games into the canon. Even if we follow that logic, the logic still says Sonic is going to grow into his Adventure form at some point and have to deal with Chaos anyway, as was indicated in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles' backstory. A new world is inherently pointless for this.
I mean, the devs didn't care about Generations story, why should we? Besides if Sonic had a 1000 continuities, that could lead to my dream game: Enter the Sonicverse. and just like all my dreams, it will never come true...
It wouldn't. 1000 continuities would just mean each game acts like it's own world and we'd never have any continuity. Some might say that's a good thing, but considering Sonic the Hedgehog 2 led into Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, that would mean no connection there and thus, no Death Egg to stop from being repaired and relaunched. Honestly, a single continuity is better.
Haha, right? And _I_ don't like it because I still don't think it makes any sense for the classic designs to just "grow up" into the Adventure designs, at least not without some on-screen explanation for the differences. Hopefully a better explanation than this. Especially after Generations, I don't think I'll ever be able to accept that they're just "differences in artstyle." But I think I see "on-screen events" as the highest depiction of canon, which can only be contradicted by LATER on-screen events. Of course, it's fine to see it however you want, but I just can't roll with the idea that what we're SEEING in Adventure's flashbacks, or in Generations, is not a genuine depiction of the events as they happened in-universe. Trying to reconcile it at this point would only really be comprehensible to diehard fans, and I don't think it'd be worth doing just for our sake. "Classic" and "Modern" will, in all likelihood, continue to be their own separate branches of the brand that cross over for anniversary events. BUT, given this topic is about "fixing" it, here's what I'd propose. Sonic's Adventure design has a lot in common with Super Sonic in Sonic 3: He has longer spines and green eyes. Modern Sonic is also generally depicted as faster (boost) and more powerful than classic. So I'd like a game that runs with that. Think a "Sonic Generations 2," but rather than containing two separate Sonics via time travel, only contains ONE Sonic, and actually depicts the change happening. Classic should not be a silent protagonist here. The Chaos Emeralds would need to be a central plot element, and the game could spend a lot of time delving into THEIR lore, and why they're so important. This could also explain why the Super Emerald alters appear as stones in Mania. Maybe Eggman's trying to supercharge some weapon with Chaos Energy derived from, like, the Chaos Emeralds, the SUPER Emeralds, the Chaos Rings, and the Phantom Ruby all at once, but Tails figures a way to reverse that power to supercharge the heroes, instead. I imagine this DBZ-esque scene where as Sonic transforms, his eyes go from black, to green, to red, and when he detransforms, boom, some of those the changes are permanent. Like I said, ANY sort of explanation is probably WAAAAAY too deep in the weeds to ever happen in the games, but that's how I'd do it.
Indeed, it seems a bit too convoluted compared to "Classic is just younger Sonic" that Generations literally drove into our heads with Amy's younger comment, Knuckles' chubbier comment, Blaze's shorter spikes comment, Charmy's shorter comment. (Have I made my point that the changes are not simply art-style and the cast are directly reacting to those changes yet?) Keep it simple, keep it safe: no three worlds, no creating alternate branches for what could just be a few games, just "Classic Sonic are adventures he had while younger, Modern Sonic are adventures he had while older." No fuss, no mess. Include background lore in the levels, but don't try and bring it forwards, that's all that's needed.
It depends on what you want to fix. From what I can tell, there are four things that are kind of messed up: a) the two Sonics At this point, the split between Classic and Modern Sonic is sort of established in-game and not only because of Forces. If you look at Sonic Mania, Tails went to Green Hill at the beginning of the game, but in Generations Green Hill was familiar to Sonic but not to Tails (as he was never there before). From now on, it is safe to assume that every new classic game is an adventure that Modern Sonic has never experienced. The original trilogy (which has 5 games) happened in the past of Modern Sonic somehow though (until Sega says the opposite), because Sonic Adventure implies that. You might not like it, but the concept is there. b) the time-and-space / another dimension thing Following the topic above, that split between the two Sonics was a time-and-space shenanigan in Generations, but in Forces is seen as if Classic Sonic is from another dimension. Sega just wants to retcon the time-and-space explanation and make us believe that he was from another dimension this whole time. Christian Whitehead said that Mania happens in a timeline after Generations. That explanation solves the whole thing, because time-and-space and another dimension became one and the same. The new timeline is really not the past of Modern Sonic, so it is seen as another dimension. A decent in-game explanation about it would be good, instead of Sega thinking that nobody remembers Generations, but we can live with that. c) the Classic Sonic continuity Now this is a pain. We don't know if Sonic 4 happens sometime after Mania or if it belongs to other timeline. We don't have an in-game explanation for the bad future shown in Sonic 4 as well. We don't know where Knuckles Chaotix fits in this. We usually assume that Sonic CD happened before Sonic 2 but apparently Sega wanted to fit it after Sonic 3K and now gave up on it. We don't know if the 8-bit games are "canon" (if this word means anything), as it is easier to consider that this Sonic is actually from another dimension / another universe / whatever. I tried to fit all the games in one consistent multi-timeline here. It is not that hard to make up with this thing, but it is not something that everyone will agree. Maybe we don't really need an official answer for that and it is more fun to play with. In any case, Modern Sonic continuity is much easier to understand. d) the two worlds And this is a huge pain. In-game, Forces and Unleashed combined define that Sonic's world is not Earth. But Adventure (and also Chronicles, Battle and Adventure 2 at some extent) shows that Angel Island (and Green Hill) is on Earth and was on Earth 4,000 years ago. Maybe Sonic's world was Earth 4,000 years ago but the Chaos/Master Emerald situation made those islands disappear from Earth and form another planet in another dimension or place in space? And now and then the islands come back for whatever reason? I don't know. And of course we have some storytelling inconsistencies, like the fucking moon. But an in-game trivia solves that with no problem. So, back to what I said, it depends on what you want to fix. If you want to get rid of the two Sonics and make them one, maybe a reset in all timelines due to Time Stones exploding or whatever. That solves the time-and-space / another dimension problem and even the Classic Sonic continuity. But if you want to solve the two worlds thing, you will need a whole new game just for that. Maybe the same game, if you will. Classic Eggman fucks up with the Time Stones, Modern Eggman fucks up with the Chaos Emeralds and Infinite (still alive) fucks up with the Phantom Ruby prototype. This whole mess resets the universe and that is it.
Simple answer: Sonic went off and used Chaos Control on it to reverse the damage caused, as he did with the ARK to stop it's fall, hence his not being around to help Shadow when he fell at the end of Sonic Adventure 2. I really don't get why this isn't the explanation, instead of "the Moon turned around".
That definitely appears to be it. In Penguin's "Welcome to the World of Sonic" book, the Sonic Generations section plays it that way. There was a podcast with one of the other writers for Penguin's Sonic books, he confirmed that they all go through Sega of Japan for approval. In a recent interview, Iizuka talks about how Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations was intended to be a one-off thing (which, I recall, is exactly what he said at the time). So it seems that the change to it being a separate universe came about when they realised Classic Sonic would be an ongoing part of the brand. Mania is exclusive to the Classic Sonic universe. Sonic 4 features the Modern versions of the characters, so would be in the Modern Sonic universe.
...this makes me indescribably angry. It's a silly choice. Just have it be random adventures, they don't need to split them in two when the series has worked just fine being one world for all. What benefit does having multiple worlds gain beyond causing confusion when they inevitably collide?
I've seen it alleged that the "Sonic from another dimension" and "two worlds" fiascoes are in fact due to mistranslations, so I'd start by making sure that these gaffs don't happen so the people behind Sonic in different regions can all be on the same page. Next, incorporate established elements back into the games. Not in terms of using plot threads from the past such as the ARK and such, but give concepts such as humans in Sonic's world and Shadow's Chaos powers and inhibitor rings more permanence. I think a big reason why the "two worlds" junk persists is because Sonic Team simply just let the humans be forgot about after Unleashed. I think Archie (especially post-Super Genesis Wave) had the right idea in terms of having the two populations integrated into a single world. If these elements and conventions were used more regularly (for example having human citizens in the crowd shots of Forces), then I think there'd be a lot less of the debate surrounding what the canon actually is. It's a small thing, but I think sticking to it would help connect the games into one world more. Really I don't think Sonic's canon is too muddled outside of the Game Gear games, which muddied continuity a bit, particularly regarding the Chaos Emeralds. I think the best thing to do would be to just excise those and Sonic 4 from canon and then you can have a clear through line from 1991 to the present day, with Mania taking place sometime between 3&K/Chaotix and Adventure. "Classic" Sonic can have an infinite amount of adventures before Adventure because at the end of the day little is nailed down to timespans and dates. Sure, people justifiably point out the contrivances of the classic designs representing younger iterations of these characters, but I honestly don't find it to be too much of an issue and put it down to them being just that, a representation. There's no need for this split timeline mess. Oh, and for god's sake, decide what you're doing with Blaze. iirc Iizuka himself says anything that doesn't adhere to her Rush backstory should be ignored, so why are the games still making references to her Sonic 06 backstory (ie Generations).
Well they're bloody stupid then and need to be dropped. This is one of those things that causes muddle canons. Sonic doesn't need a a Zelda timeline and I don't see why the humans and animals need to be kept separate.
While I'm not really all that concerned about continuity (if Sega doesn't care why should I?), I guess I can go into my ideal. DISCLAIMER: I KNOW THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN, SO DON'T BOTHER TELLING ME THAT. First, officially partner with Evening Star to make them shepherds of the franchise. Second, take an approach that combines Star Wars, Mario, and Kirby. To elaborate: Star Wars: throw out EVERYTHING except the most basic of stuff. Sonic 1, then CD, then 2, then 3K, then Mania. Really popular aspects of Sonic's "expanded universe" can be brought back, reimagined, at Sega's/Evening Star's discretion. Mario: 1 main game per generation. This will prevent burnout from both Evening Star, to allow them their own non-Sonic projects, and the consumers (the last thing I want is the series to get annualized again). Kirby: fuck 3D. They got 2D down pat, just keep doing 2D. Again, I know it won't happen, and that it will piss off people who started with Adventure or later. That's why I said MY ideal and not THE ideal. Random note: I'm on a new phone that keeps trying to autocorrect my curse words. Well fuck you, you fucking phone, I can fucking curse if I fucking want to.
Indeed, the three worlds idea only serves to royally muck up canon. 1) As I've mentioned before, Sonic Adventure ties itself to the canon of the Classic Collection, to the point that Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Knuckles' backstory makes reference to Perfect Chaos, and both that and Sonic the Hedgehog 2 reference the Echidna tribe, while Sonic Adventure references directly the events of those games. As a result, they now have to explain various details, such as how the Human World is aware of what happened with the Little Planet and Angel Island. If the Classic Trilogy was happening on Earth, then where did Mobius* enter the picture? Sonic the Hedgehog 2 leads into Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles as well, so Sonic the Hedgehog 2 must logically take place on Earth, since Angel Island is a known Earth event. 2) Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Battle all establish a long history involving the Echidna on Earth. Sonic Adventure has the Mystic Ruins, which has an old train station set up and, you know, a train running to and from it, indicating that this isn't a place that suddenly appeared. Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Battle further establish this point with Professor Gerald Robotnik, who was researching the Echidna 50 years ago, hence the creation of Perfect Chaos and the discovery of Emerl, and had the G.U.N.'s backing on this. This firmly establishes the Echidna as being on the Human World, if we're being forced into this, or G.U.N. being on Mobius, which kind of defeats the purpose of having two worlds in the first place. 3) If the Classic games are a separate dimension entirely, as established by the retcon above where Sonic refers to Classic Sonic during these events as being from another dimension instead of his younger self as Amy, Rogue, Charmy, Blaze, Dr. Robotnik all indicate to be the case, then any modern game tying itself to those events can not actually do so, as those events take place in an alternate dimension. To reference those classic games makes no sense, rendering Sonic Generations non-canon, which can't be since Sonic and Tails reference the event in Sonic Forces. 4) They now have to explain Angel Island. Is it an Earth-based location? The Mystic Ruins imply so. So the Chaos Emeralds are also from Earth, then? How did Mobius get involved with Earth-based affairs? Being blunt, the three worlds concept only does more damage to canon than it actually solves, and Sonic actually had a pretty tight canon before it. Shadow worked for G.U.N., so has he just disappeared from G.U.N. to go to Mobius? Why has he left behind the world he promised Maria he would protect? We have precious few answers for a concept that's not being implemented properly, despite claiming it's been this way since Sonic Adventure, despite the game in question outright contradicting the concept. *I'm aware Sonic's World is not called Mobius now, but until we get an actual name to use I'm just going to call it that in the mean time.
I've always thought that Unleashed made clear the origin of the Chaos Emeralds lies on Earth. The battle between the two Gaias happen since millions of years ago and each shattered continent has a place to put a Chaos Emerald in it.
So where does Mobius come into play? Why is Earth, a world populated by Humans, the home of the Echidna and the Chaos Emeralds, instead of the world of animals they've 'established'?
