The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    26 vote(s)
    21.0%
  2. I hate it

    42 vote(s)
    33.9%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    17 vote(s)
    13.7%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    39 vote(s)
    31.5%
  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    All I remember is that ambiguous line about the Death Egg falling after the events of Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Which it still is. I still fail to see anything precluding further adventures.
     
  2. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    Were you talking about this "upscaling" where the "A" of Sega is shivering and the game title has anything but smooth borders? Your concern is really a reasonable one.

    Here comes a new challenger! It's so evident you haven't read the whole thread... And that's good for your sanity, you shouldn't ask them to explain the same things again (we're talking about dozens of pages!).
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    My first ever post on this thread was very good actually. I was expecting some rambling bullshit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  4. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    if that's answering my post, then I'll say sorry for my wording, and I'll add I was kind of kidding for the most part. I was talking more about when the "war" started and there were a lot of pages of arguments and bad blood, all of which I also contributed to, so I should have included myself in my "joke" too.

    That aside, I've always been more on the camp of "If Sega won't bother doing it right, we shouldn't bother either as it will be impossible to achieve anyway". And then the 8-bit games giving extra headaches when they were a separate line since the beginning. The "new challenger" seems to be on the same camp, and that's why I felt like bringing it up in a funny way.

    And now, something new! (but not really a timeline thing, I think?): the planetary park in Sonic Colours reminds me of the death egg in Sonic The Fighters, which always looked weird with all those addons. Could this be useful for these chronologies of yours?
     
  5. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Actually it was not an answer per si. You were talking about reading the whole thread and that got me curious to remember what I've first posted. But that was not an answer, it was just nostalgia trip. I guess that was my bad for commenting without context. Sorry about that.

    It does?

    In any case, maybe it is useful to @BlackHole. I'm taking the "Sonic the Fighters is not canon" to my grave unless there is some explanation for why did Tails design a rocket that requires eight Chaos Emeralds if there isn't eight of them - and even if that rocket really required more energy than the seven Chaos Emeralds can provide, for some whatever reason, why didn't he use the Master Emerald for that.

    And yeah, maybe the "each island had a new set of emeralds" was a thing back then, but now it isn't.
     
  6. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    Sort of. A central orb with some other orbs attached to it. If little planet became a death egg in S4Ep2, a "bad ending" for Colours could lead to that setup as well.

    Which reminds me StF Death Egg has a total of seven orbs (including the central eggface), each of a different colour that we could tie to an emerald. This way, we could find out which one was the fake one and which character was fooled with it. Tails making a fake one for someone and then telling they need them all to keep the presence of a fake one secret sounds funny to me. And if he's gonna lie, saying the rocket needed all those emeralds to power up instead of needing them to blow the death egg up also makes a bit of sense.
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Alternately, one is simply a copy of the other created when Robotnik clones the player character.

    Of course, the issue then becomes the missing silver Chaos Emerald.

    [​IMG]

    Red, Green, Blue, Silver, Cyan, Magenta, Yellow.

    Red, Green, Blue, Pink, Purple, Magenta, Yellow, Orange.

    The issue with the Sonic the Fighters Chaos Emeralds is that they're the colour of who you get them off, rather than the standard colour scheme. I guess so you can determine who you've beaten on the results screen?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Either way, it was at a time when the Chaos Emeralds were changing colour every other non-Sonic Team game. Not helped by Sonic Team also tweaking colour schemes half the time, such as dark blue turning purple and back, and yellow becoming orange, making them look like they weren't settled on the colour either.

    Speaking of Sonic the Fighters, guess who has more Earth imagery in the series:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Earth has 8 Chaos Emeralds confirmed.
     
  9. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Was Sonic Spinball made by Sega of America instead of Japan? If so, should we consider the english manual instead of the japanese one?
     
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It was, you may note its absence from the timeline. I view it as a relative of the SatAM continuity rather than the games continuity, same with Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine.
     
  11. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Thank you. Yes, I know it is SatAM. But I was thinking... The game takes place on planet Mobius, which Iizuka already stated that it is a planet that exists in Sonic's main universe. And, while the game shows sixteen (!!!) emeralds, it never says that those are Chaos Emeralds iirc, nor even the english manual does (the japanese manual does though). So those sixteen emeralds could be simply a different set of emeralds that exists on planet Mobius. And thus Sonic Spinball is more canonable than Sonic the Fighters. :p
     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    In the Iizuka Canon. Naka Canon, maybe, maybe not.
     
  13. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I was going to make a new thread, but I think the subject fits here.
    Aside from the two-worlds, and time-and-space-another-dimension thing, what plot holes do you remember? Or which ones do you think are plot holes and maybe they are not? And what are the possible explanations?
    Here's what I remember:


    Sonic Adventure 2:
    - The fucking moon. The two possible explanations are: the destroyed part is always facing backwards; or the moon was restored using Chaos Control.

    Sonic Heroes:
    - What happened to those dozens of Shadow clones? The possible explanation: they were all destroyed...?

    Shadow the Hedgehog:
    - Why was Shadow despising humanity and the alien invasion at the beginning of the game?

    Sonic 06:
    - How did the Duke of Soleanna know that Elise would release Iblis if she cries?
    - How did the Duke of Soleanna obtain the Scepter of Darkness and how did he know what it does?
    - What the hell is Blaze doing in the future?
    - Why couldn't Mephiles merge with Iblis before, if he is literally the god of time?
    - Why did all the main characters appear in exactly the same place at the end of the world and only them?

    Sonic Generations:
    - How did Classic Tails get there? My guess is that he went on his own to try to save Sonic, in the same way that both Eggmans managed to get out later.

    Sonic Lost World:
    - Who the hell are the Deadly Six?
    - What the hell is the Lost Hex?
    - What the hell is that shell that controls the Deadly Six, and how did Eggman get one?

    Sonic Forces:
    - Where were the Chaos Emeralds? DLC is not the answer.
    - Why didn't Eggman build Eggmanland, if this was the dream he saw with the Phantom Ruby and he already had 99% of the world conquered? Maybe he preferred to guarantee 100% before starting to build it, so as not to repeat his failure in Unleashed?
    - Where was Shadow during the 6 months of world domination and why didn't Rouge warn anyone that that Shadow who accompanied Infinite was not the real one?


    EDIT: Added some 06's holes
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
  14. _Sidle

    _Sidle

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    Omega announced he intended to destroy all those Shadow Androids the minute he stepped into the room, implying that specific batch is gone not long after Rouge steps out.
     
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  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Let's play a game called "BlackHole attempts to fill Plotholes with some BS!"
    As noted: restored using Chaos Control, doubles as why Sonic wasn't present to stop Shadow's fall.

    As _Sidle noted, Omega destroys them. They are Eggman's robots.

    The game implies a hivemind that Archie Sonic the Hedgehog expanded on briefly. The Black Arms may have been influencing him through that to get him in a better position mentally to serve them.

    • When Iblis took physical shape, it made a 'mind' of it's own. A basic, primal mind, but a mind nonetheless, effectively locking Mephiles out. Mephiles, similarly, can only occupy one space in time, and was busy with Shadow on initial Iblis release, thus was not there at initial unsealing until he introduced a wildcard element to knock the timeline off: Silver.
    • Mephiles was messing with them, while Chaos Emerald exposure was giving them a bit of an immunity to Solaris' power.

    He was caught by Robotnik same as the others: Modern Tails located him after seeing Classic Sonic and realising something was amiss. Classic Sonic was also unseen for a little bit, might be related. Apparently, there was a cutscene planned to introduce him properly, but they ran out of time, story of Sonic's career.

    • I got nothing, they really don't go into detail. Perhaps they were old enemies of the Echidna? The Desert Ruins are a thing, like Sandopolis, so they might hold the key if there's Echidna statu-

    [​IMG]

    ...why are there Humans in Sonic Lost World?

    • Wandering planet akin to Sonic the Hedgehog CD's Little Planet.
    • Magic, he found it. Again, there are some ruins on the Lost Hex, and the Deadly Six are aggressive. Would not be surprised if someone made the thing to keep them under control.

    • Special Stages. If we take the comics as canon, Robotnik wasn't bothering with them as the Phantom Ruby he found was more powerful than the Master Emerald, so he was focused on building a new one randomly.
    • Pretty much. He builds it, the Resistance tears it down, so much effort wasted once more. At least with the current set up, he only loses a tower.
    • He was off being the Vegeta wannabe that SEGA are determined to turn him into. So perhaps training?
     
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  16. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Mephiles could merge into Iblis when Elise died in the plane crash (which will later lead to Silver's future). There was nothing preventing him to do so.
    (I added other 06's questions up there.)

    Is this for real? Never knew that.

    Yeah but what about the Resistance? They could use some emeralds.

    That doesn't explain Rouge not telling everyone.
     
  17. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    The destroyed part is facing backwards. That’s the official explanation and it makes enough sense.
    Omega blew them up.
    - Maybe he discovered it during research? Dunno
    - That’s not a plot hole, it’s just not part of the story. Presumably he or someone else found it.
    - It seems SEGA decided to make it so Blaze’s world was actually the future then changed their minds at the last minute. That’s the reason Blaze recognizes Sonic and why Eggman Nega showed up in Rivals.
    - Presumably he has to be present at the moment the flames are released and before they turn into Iblis.
    - Because it’s a game and if they didn’t the story wouldn’t be able to progress. There’s no actual plot reason.
    Probably sucked up by the Time Eater like Classic Sonic was.
    None of these are plot holes, they’re just not spelled out for you in the story.
    - Guardians of the Lost Hex
    - A legendary floating planetoids thing
    - It’s a shell that produces a sound they can’t stand, and Eggman probably found it somewhere, maybe after learning about it from some ancient documents or something.

    - DLC is the only answer. If you want to head-canon it, maybe they’re in the human world? I don’t like that answer either but I guess it works. Don’t ask me why they never used the dumb gate or whatever to go and get them.
    - Because the backstory comics were written after the main script and/or Ian Flynn is the one who decided to portray the future as Eggmanland.
    - That’s a legitimate plot issue but I guess you could come up with reasons he’d be gone. Maybe he was busy freeing people on the other side of the world and didn’t keep in touch because he’s a dick. As for Rouge it’s possible she didn’t know and thought Shadow got brainwashed or something.
     
  18. Childish

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    Tails is the only character who has the ability to manufacture fake emeralds, thus only he would be able to use the rocket.
     
  19. BlackHole

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    As I said, once Iblis took physical form, he developed a mind that locked Mephiles out. Mephiles, meanwhile, was busy with Shadow and can only be in one space in one time. Thus, by the time there was timespace free to him to get to Iblis, it was too late. It was only with the creation of a new timeline via Silver there was timespace free for him to get to Iblis.

    Likely research from the Solaris Project, just in case it went pear-shaped like the ARK 40 years ago. It did.

    Likely drawn there by the Sol Emeralds, as promotional material suggests she's still their guardian during Sonic the Hedgehog (2006).

    See answer 2.

    Like the Master Emerald on Angel Island? Considering their losses, I would think they don't want Robotnik deciding to take them from their ruins. Aka: they don't want to risk it, and Sonic was afp at that point so couldn't just grab them himself.

    Rouge either didn't know, or just kept mum to prevent information leaks.
     
  20. Roller

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    I don't know why people are confused by this; it's one of the most straightforward things about 06's impact on the wider series, and is still touched on with surprising consistency to this day.

    Blaze is born in the future. She fights Iblis and then make the decision to contain it within herself, and gets sealed into another dimension (EXACT WORDING, GO REWATCH THAT CUTSCENE!!) Because of that, when Solaris is reunited in the "present day" she is unaffected by the near-collapse of spacetime and not present for the events of Last Story/End Of The World.

    When Elise blows out the flame of Solaris, reality undergoes a soft reset that undoes the direct effects of the ten-years-ago disaster on the timeline, but some things remain unerased; Sonic and Elise's awareness of each other is the one that the game explicitly flags in its final cutscene, but Sonic Colours DS, the Sonic Channel wallpapers, and the IDW comics (not canon but written with Sonic Team's input) all point to Silver and Blaze knowing innately that they have a strong connection but not the specifics of the how or why.

    It relies a little on ignoring the release order of the two games and a lot on on ignoring the mess that's going on with Eggman Nega's story, but it's be so easy to explicitly retcon away even the healed scars of this game and yet they haven't.