The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    26 vote(s)
    21.0%
  2. I hate it

    42 vote(s)
    33.9%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    17 vote(s)
    13.7%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    39 vote(s)
    31.5%
  1. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Yeah for sure. I do think it's important to correct when misinformation is being spread. I also sometimes feel like younger fans make complaints because they don't have the contextual knowledge of the series that I do, so I think it's something that everyone in our age group falls into at some point. And the same will happen to Gen Z in 10 years time!

    Another thing that's occurred to me is when we consider our position in the fanbase (those of us in our 30s), it's easy to forget that we aren't the oldest fans. Think of people like Stealth, who are in their 40s. Stealth would have been around 12 when Sonic 1 was released. I actually talked to someone who was in their 40s about Sonic in real life and it was really interesting to get his perspective on the franchise. How he hated Tails because he was looking forward to Sonic 2 in his teenage years during its campaign hype and was put off by having an AI companion get in the way and losing rings in special stages, break bridges etc. It's not a new complaint, but the angle of it ruining hype I think is interesting. It's not something we had any concept of, because when we played the Sonic games as kids the classics would have already all been released at that point.

    He also told me how significant the gap between Sonic 3 (1994) and Sonic Adventure (1999) felt to him. I guess in your teenage years that's a really big time gap. To use Stealth again as an example, he would have been 15 when Sonic 3 came out and 20 when Sonic Adventure came out. I remember my friend telling me how it was fun to see Sonic in 3D, but the gap had kind of killed it for him and he had moved onto other things at that point. Again, this is something I don't think a lot of people our age would have much context of, because we probably played the games for the first time around the late 1990s anyway. I remember thinking Sonic Adventure was getting released only a year or maybe two after I first got into the series.

    I dunno how important this is, I just think it's interesting to think about. It's not like we have perfect contextual knowledge of the franchise either.
     
  2. Nova

    Nova

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    That genuinely is very interesting to think about because, while I was alive for the release of all three of the original series, I was young enough that 'hype' wasn't really a thing for me. I got Sonic 2 and nothing would have put me off it because it was just more Sonic to me at the time. And yeah, time gaps are a strange thing - Sonic 3 to Sonic Adventure felt like the longest wait ever yet here we are with a similar gap now and it's only starting to feel kinda long now.
     
  3. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    One of the things he said which I found really interesting was that when he was a little older and the PS1, Saturn, N64 hit the market, he told me how SEGA was basically dead at the time because the Saturn was complete trash. He didn't have any of the nuance in modern discussions, the Saturn was just trash because that's how he remembered it being discussed and presented at the time. That was his truth.

    Which I think is well-representative of how we can actually be wrong about stuff we lived through. I'm not sure if the Saturn is any good but I doubt it was as dreadful as he made out :V
     
  4. The Generational gap is something that happens to all of us, especially when we swear that we won't turn out like that. The passage of time hits all of us eventually.

    Its ironic when millennials call out "Boomers, only to redirect that same behavior towards Gen Z without a hint of irony.

    Human nature is fascinating. I try to have enough self awareness to understand the younger and older generations, but I can't help my own biases.
     
  5. BadBehavior

    BadBehavior

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    Reminds me of a discussion I had on the sonic reddit with someone who insisted that I only disliked Forces because "some youtuber told you to". He couldn't even name a specific youtuber when I asked.

    It's just "people only hate SA2 cos of Arin Hanson" with a different skin. It's so repetitive that if it were a level, it'd be Green Hill Zone.
     
  6. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    And that's why my opinion never depends on a youtuber's ^^"
     
  7. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    Hello, I'm 40, and I'm probably not the only one still around.

    I'm a bit of a bad example, because I didn't own a Mega Drive until 1995 and a Dreamcast until Christmas 2001-2002 (We get presents in January 5th here). I had lived the boom of Sonic (multiple puns not intended) and had the chance to try games shortly after released, but I had beaten the 8-bit versions before I got my 16-bit console (but not too sooner, I got my Master System on Christmas 1993-1994). I also got a Super NES later, so I played everything of my taste I could (I think I played Secret of Mana in 1997, for example). From my point of view, Sony were the bad guys ruining the possibilities of the Saturn, and I still wanted one with all the Sonic and ST games that were released for it despite how bad it performed (I also wanted a Mega CD with all the special versions of the games I liked and a 32X with Chaotix even after a friend showed me how bad that system and game were).

    I'm probably digressing so essentially I lived the 90s as if they were a constant influx of Sonicness that went too quick in the beginning and too low after Sonic 3D, but not totally stopped until Saturn died with Sonic Xtreme never released. I played Tomb Raider as my main 3D franchise first, so I had something to spend my time, but waited patiently to get my DC and I still played my Master System at some point while the console received technical support (it came faulty from factory). I started playing on DC as if the gap never happened and I only saw the franchise aging when SA2 was really different and no new Sega console was released, jumping to GC only to see what Heroes was and start being an angry fan for a good while.

    Since you want specific cases, I will tell you S&K felt like a shameless cash grab because of how quick it was released after Sonic 3, which didn't feel that short because I had Sonic 1 as one of the only two 16-bit formats I had played: 2 acts of longer levels equated 3 acts of the original, and both had 6 zones. Of course, that didn't mean S3&K was the real deal and I played the combined game to death, but I got those McDonalds toys that caused the split and still own them. The good thing was everyone knew Sonic and Mario and were engaged with the console wars a bit; probably the sort of thing kids have now with Fortnite and Brawl Stars.

    EDIT: Wait, this is the continuity thread? We're really going offtopic. :eng99:
     
  8. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Indeed. So how about them there Chaos Emeralds? I like this post on South Island Stories, especially this image:
    [​IMG]

    Other than slight variances, the Chaos Emeralds colour scheme do seem to have some baseline consistency in the Sonic Team games, if we do go with the idea the purple emerald in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is actually the dark blue emerald and the orange emerald is actually yellow in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles.

    It was brought to my attention when I was discussing the Super Emeralds in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, and what they actually are.

    The weird thing is: they seem to become 'Super Emeralds' when on an altar. They take the size three times in the series:

    Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
    Sonic Adventure
    Sonic Adventure 2

    All three times, they're on an altar: the Hidden Palace altar, the altar in the past of Sonic Adventure, and the altar on the ARK. So there's something about the altars that prompts the 'Super Emerald' form...
     
  9. Overlord

    Overlord

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    The colour scheme is consistent, yes - to the point it was a question on the Sega Test.
     
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The differing shades throw you off. Sonic the Hedgehog 2's purple becomes pink, which throws you off for the 'dark blue'.
     
  11. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    That list is missing some schemes, like those two Sonic Jam has, or the Time Stones, which, OK, they're not Chaos Emeralds, but follow a similar rule. But yes, consistency in the cholor scheme is actually something tha has gotten better with modern games.

    Another thing I find weird is not a single set seems to have borrowed a rainbow scheme; white/grey is always there, but messing with colours would be more understandable if you thought "Oh, yes, Chaos Emeralds are seven and have different colours, they must be like the rainbows!".
     
  12. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
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    Maybe an indigo emerald would be difficult to differentiate from a blue or a purple emerald, and they put grey instead.
     
  13. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    But there's a dark blue and a sky blue along with the white one in the most consistent pattern.
     
  14. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
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    That's because they're based on the primary/secondary colours of light:

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. How the hell has something so obvious alluded me...
     
  16. Pengi

    Pengi

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    The JP Sonic 1 manual lists the Chaos Emerald colours as: yellow, pink, blue, green, red, white.
    https://info.sonicretro.org/index.php?title=File:Sonic1_MD_JP_manual.pdf&page=24

    The JP Sonic 2 manual lists them as: blue, green, red, yellow, pink, white, purple.
    https://info.sonicretro.org/index.php?title=File:Sonic2_MD_JP_manual.pdf&page=20

    So purple was the new colour.

    In Sonic Jam's Special Stage results screen, the Sonic 1 Chaos Emerald colours are the same. (They're presented in order left to right, top to bottom. You can verify this by getting 1-5 emeralds.)

    However, in the Sonic 2 results screen, the purple Chaos Emerald (from Special Stage 2) is depicted as blue, and the sky blue is the new colour. (Excuse the poor camera image.)

    [​IMG]



    Sonic 3's second Chaos Emerald is yellow, but in Sonic & Knuckles and S3&K the second Chaos/Super Emerald is orange.

    In Sonic Jam, the second Chaos Emerald is depicted as orange in both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles' results screens (meaning that there are 8 different Chaos Emerald colours within Sonic Jam).

    [​IMG]

    Sonic R's in-game Chaos Emerald colours are different from the good ending screen, with Sonic Team's renders. The ending screen uses the Sonic Adventure colours, with a second shade of blue, while the in-game set has an orange emerald.

    In Sonic Adventure, the textures are listed as:

    M_EM_BLACK (power-drained emerald)

    M_EM_BLUE
    M_EM_GREEN
    M_EM_PURPLE
    M_EM_RED
    M_EM_SKY
    M_EM_WHITE
    M_EM_YELLOW

    Would any version of Sonic the Fighters have the Chaos Emerald colours listed somewhere in the code?
     
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  17. Overlord

    Overlord

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    For reference, the Sega Test question:

    upload_2021-5-10_20-41-13.png
     
  18. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Oh, that's interesting. I forgot about Sonic Jam's Special Stage elements... I might have to go through them on my copy and get clear shots with my capture card tomorrow after work.

    It's a Sonic Team game, so apparently, we've got a mystery 8th Orange Chaos Emerald...

    Looks like Sonic the Fighters might not be too far out the realm of canon...
     
  19. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    We all know that the 8th Chaos Emerald in Sonic the Fighters is that one missing from Sonic 1 after travelling through spacetime due to a Chaos Control.
     
  20. Pengi

    Pengi

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    I brought this up in the "Other Knowledge" topic, but according to the Sonic Fandom wiki, the Chaos Emerald colours differ between the Western and Japanese versions of Sonic Chronicles (with the latter matching the Sonic Adventure standard). But I've not seen any hard proof of this.

    -

    In the Whitehead version of Sonic 1, according to our wiki:

    Is there anything like this in the Whitehead version of Sonic 2?

    -

    Sonic Triple Trouble has a peculiar set of emeralds. For one thing, there's two yellows - one you get from a Special Stage and the one that Eggman has. Has anyone done a side by side comparison of these two yellows? To my eye, Eggman's emerald looks lighter in the good ending than it does in the intro.

    The wiki could certainly use them!

    Has there ever been an instance where "the blue Emerald is pink"? I guess this is supposed to be a reference to Sonic 2, but as I mentioned, the JP manual simply calls the cyan emerald "blue" (just like Sonic 1), whereas sonic Jam treats the cyan emerald as cyan and the purple emerald as (dark) blue, with the pink emerald remaining pink/purple.