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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Josh

    Josh

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    Big Smile posted one earlier:
    upload_2021-3-29_19-23-25.png

    If it wasn't a separate universe (and rather the past, or a split timeline), then why are some characters locked to either Classic or Modern? I'd have to go digging to find them, but this is in-line with other interviews about how the Sonic Heroes team saw their redesigned Vector, Charmy, and Espio as new characters, separate from their appearance in Chaotix.

    Recent retellings of Generations' events describe it the same way.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Forte

    Forte

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    I always thought Classic Sonic was from the past in generations, but after the game, the timeline splits and we get two different dimensions:

    - Classic Sonic (classic trilogy + mania)
    - Modern Sonic (classic trilogy + modern games)

    This way, Classic Sonic is still a past version of modern Sonic, but can still have new Adventures...

    ...I wonder if there's ARK in his world?
     
  3. Tbh, this also kinda explains why dreamcast sonic isn't in gens (outside of real world context) to represent the dreamcast era.
     
  4. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    It'd be way easier if Sonic Team or so revamped the Classics into one or more new games.
    So as to consolidate the Classic/Modern split. Even I could accept such move of theirs ^^"
     
  5. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    I've been seeing the sentiment that "dreamcast Sonic" should be a thing more and more lately, but honestly it's Modern Sonic. In terms of design, other than the slightly overrated SOAP shoes in SA2, there is no difference between who Sonic is today and who he was back in 1998.

    And really, with the confusion that exists with Classic Sonic now, is it really a good idea to split a single character into one more (arguably more arbitrary) version of the character?

    I'm genuinely baffled why people think a separated Dreamcast incarnation of the character should exist when there's not much to differentiate it from the Modern incarnation...
     
  6. Forte

    Forte

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    I can see it. Dreamcast Sonic is more like "Ryan Drummond Sonic" for some people. Add "cool" Uekawa Art to the Mix, and we have a different character from 3D rendered, today's Sonic.

    Anyway, if MegaMan can have so many incarnations (Classic, X, Legends, Zero, Exe etc) I don't see a problem with multiple Sonics.
     
  7. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    It seems like we're playing "Timeline The Topic: Generations" here, because we're revisiting past arguments from when the topic started.

    That's a lot easier, and also goes in line with the recent couple of pages. Someone mentioned Doctor Who, but I expected a mention to what happens in that show when two incarnations of the same characters go back to their way after meeting each other: they completely forget the shared events.

    Without resorting to Doctor Who, classic doc actually forgot that plan, so much heintended it again, and... Surprise! No timeline split at all. Classic Sonic doing a homing attack could be explained as not enough trained until after trying the fire shields in 3K or the golden shield in 3D Blast which worked similarly and let him understand the move better to fully master and use it; at the beginning, he only mastered that insta-shield thing that didn't move him forward.

    ***

    I'd really like game plots, other official words and proper fan explanations as well all fitted together, but they don't and they won't. As someone said in a far post from a far page of this topic, the way everything is arranged we should treat each and every game a different dimension that sometimes borrows from events presented in previous games, but always as something that ALSO happened in that game's dimension, either exactly or approximately like we knew it. Every game is a soft reset because that's how the gods of Sonic Universe (aka the developers) like to shape its reality (aka write the plot).
     
  8. Uh... yeah, lol. That was my point. They're the same guy. :p
     
  9. RDNexus

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    Yep, DC Sonic is just the primary version of Modern Sonic.
    The transitionary stage of Classic Sonic to Modern version.
    Aesthetically speaking, that is. I don't bite that "growing up" thing ^^"
     
  10. ChaddyFantome

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    Sorry, i suppose I didn't make it clear enough.
    Im.focusing on the "always has been" part of your post.
    Im well versed in it being split by generations if my earlier posts didn't make it clear enough.
    As for the bit about The Chaotix, to ky knowledge the most recent Sonic Channel Story actually lists Chaotix as an event in Modern Vector's history. And seemingly the Chaotix are now locked to Modern in general as opposed to their being 2 versions of them like the main cast.
    Thats not even getting into the fact that Generations was going to have 3 Sonic's at one point, one being for the "Dreamcast" era.
    It seems like a pretty huge leap in logic to say its "always been this way".
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  11. Josh

    Josh

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    I know. That's what I was responding about. I'm not saying it's "always been this way," in reality. I'm saying that's the way Sega currently portrays it in canon. I'm not sure what other clarification you're looking for.

    As far as I know, that was only ever an unsubstantiated rumor. I think it spun out of the actual fact that Ryan Drummond did re-audition for Sonic in 2010, but if he'd taken the role, it wouldn't have been as a third iteration of the character. I don't think anyone was even making a distinction between Adventure and Modern as being remotely separate characters back then.
     
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  12. Blue Spikeball

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    Regarding Sega's use of "dimension", I don't think anyone has brought up this old official comic strip posted when Generations came out, showing the game's opening cutscene:
    https://www.sonicstadium.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Sonic-Generations-Comic-Strip.jpg

    The narration claims that Sonic's friends were thrown into other dimensions by the Time Eater. The "dimensions" here are the Generations stages, which in the context of the game's story are various points in Sonic's past. This makes it seem as though Sega uses "dimensions" in the sense of "time zones" in the context of time travel.
     
  13. Pengi

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    It says "another dimensions", so either the plural is a typo or the word "another" is. The dimension they're sent to is White Space.

    It's real world background info on his first appearance in a video game. The character introductions below the 25th anniversary comics did the same thing back in 2016. Ian Flynn has said that Chaotix isn't considered canon. I don't think they'd decide to suddenly reverse this decision, now that there's an even stronger divide between the classic and modern material.
     
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  14. Blue Spikeball

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    I considered that, but I don't think it's referring to White Space, as they were sucked into portals to the Generations stages. Our wiki and Fandom also state that White Space is a void between dimensions, the source being apparently the Sonic Generations Official Strategy Guide (I don't have it so can't confirm).
     
  15. Overlord

    Overlord

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    You'll note it's coming more from those that want the Adventure style of gameplay back than from anyone else. I agree, it's bad enough that we have 2 main versions of the cast.
     
  16. Beamer the Meep

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    A return to the adventure style isn't that bad an idea, especially if it takes more after SA1 with SA2 improvements thrown in, but really doesn't need another arbitrary divide.


    See, that makes even less sense if you look at it from the "purist" Japanese perspective. There has never been major voice cast change in Japan and so they don't really perceive a "dreamcast" Sonic. Meta changes in the franchise should not necessarily equate to a whole new character. I can somewhat understand the artstyle shift, but even then, Uekawa has still been doing artwork for the franchise even after renders became popular.

    As far as MegaMan's incarnations, I believe the explanation for them is that Inefune wanted to do something different but was still expected to work on Megaman (a seemingly familiar situation with Sonic I might add). As a result, each different incarnation of MegaMan plays fairly differently compared to each other (platformer, more fast paced platformer, 3D, RPG, etc.). The result is a highly fractured fanbase and resultingly a franchise that Capcom is seemingly afraid to touch out of fear of immense backlash.

    To tie this all back into lore though, if they can't reasonably explain Classic Sonic in a way that answers lore implications and contradictions in their own plot, I don't think pressing them into spinning off the era of 1998 - 2005 into its own continuity is a great idea either.
     
  17. Pengi

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    On a somewhat related note, according to Ian Flynn, the current official word is that Sonic's world and the human world are separate planets that exist in the same dimension. So less like Sonic X and more like the Sonic movie.

    Team Sonic Racing makes more sense with this setting, since they were using Dodon Pa's spaceship to travel.
     
  18. RDNexus

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    Still makes little sense to me.
    Nothing in the games even hints at it.
    Said context even causes conflict with the games up to 06 or Unleashed.
     
  19. Shade Vortex

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    I mean, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the explanation is. It's never going to matter in the narrative, or at least hasn't so far. It's just been an excuse to justify how some Sonic games take place in fantastical environments like Lost World, Mania and Colors- and others take place in more grounded, based-on-reality locations like SA2, 06 and Unleashed. But then you have outliers like Forces where it's like a mix of both for no explainable reason. Honestly, it's just a superfluous afterthought to justify their inconsistent direction with the franchise.

    But regardless of how people feel about it, the word of god, retconned explanation is that there is the Human World, Sonic's World, and the Classic dimension, all as three separate things. I used to be bent out of shape over Sonic story and lore, but if SEGA and Sonic Team aren't going to care about it in great detail- why should I?
     
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  20. Azookara

    Azookara

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    The two worlds and classic/modern dimension stuff is such a shitshow of unnecessary messiness.

    I’d rather just say “believe what you want to about Sonic canon” because I feel like the ignorance and creativity of filling in the blanks is far more blissful than wading through the most pointless dividing lines I’ve ever seen in a single series this (otherwise) simplistic.