Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.
Yes, that is what dead means. "Dead to you" is not "dead".
We did get almost get a game with that level of production with Unleashed. No game since has had that game's level of marketing and PR.
We can get that again, but I have no idea how much faith Sega even still has in this series. They've just been kind of spinning their wheels since Generations as you said.
I'm 28. I'm in the same generation and I've seen the same highs and lows. It's called "Death by One Thousand Cuts."
Sure, this time the cut won't kill it. Just as the last time didn't, nor the last time. But how many bad games do you think the series can take? It took two mishandled consoles, the SEGA Mega Drive 32X and the SEGA Saturn, to kill Console-Maker SEGA. And with the claim "Sonic Forces performed strongly" back in 2018, I don't think we'll be moving away from its style.
Does anyone know where one can find Sonic Forces' sales figures?
Say hi to Bubsy for me.
You underestimate my anger.
But seriously, I'm not one to let go of irritation and anger. I've held a grudge for over a decade now toward some people I know. Two decades, actually, now that I think about it. So my feelings on the matter won't pass until I see some genuine improvement. Again, not asking for the most perfect, consistent lore, just stop swerving into a wall to avoid continuity. How hard was it to co-ordinate the stories of Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces to make the Phantom Ruby plot consistent?
Also stop with the Boost gameplay, it's not good gameplay for Sonic.
Other than not drinking alcohol, I view it as a death by a thousand cuts in-progress, as mentioned prior. And with Iizuka either massively misunderstanding the series prior to his taking over or out and out lying to people, I genuinely apologise for lacking the same optimism you have about the franchise.
Still, let's try and get back on target. Continuity, what continuity nods do people like in the games?
So, this is Final Egg from Sonic Adventure. When questioned on it, Evan Stanley noted that it was specifically called that in the script.
Last I checked, Sonic Adventure was set on Earth, in the Human city Station Square.
Coupled with a prior post noting Earth's image as Angel Island's location, I'm starting to get the impression that someone at IDW is similarly not a fan of the Two Worlds Canon.
Though apparently they just can't out and out say it's the Final Egg since apparently, unsure where this was said so not sure how accurate this is, SEGA don't want them referencing games and want the comic to be it's own thing. Which is fair, but...
(I do seem to recall the Twitter post where Ian Flynn noted that "Iizuka inherited the Two Worlds from Yuji Naka", or a post from him around that time, to also note it's a stupid idea, so maybe it's him?)
Aforementioned prior post:
Figured I'd post this here since this is where the majority of the Two World Canon debate is set and I don't want that bleeding over into the IDW thread. Also, the thread is the Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread, not the Sonic the Hedgehog Games Continuity Thread, so this is still a continuity discussion. Considering SEGA have direct hands in this, I'm surprised they didn't mandate the planet be redrawn with an image of Sonic's World from Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I, Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II or Sonic Forces, the three times it's actually depicted.
Just a minor observation, at any rate. Most likely small things slipping through cracks really.
Well, since Angel Island presumably moves back and forth between Earth and Sonic's World, presumably the echidna ruins and Final Egg would have to as well. That or they just reused the aesthetic. I don't think there's any sense to be made of Two Worlds. It's an editorial decision rooted in brand identity not narrative continuity.
Indeed. I was simply noting that they seem to be slipping in minor connections toward Earth or Earth locales. Or they're slipping through because no one's told the artist "Yeah, don't draw Earth, it's not Earth."
Apparently that is the Final Egg, though. Makes me wonder if there were Humans infected by the Zombot plague...
So that new SA concept art sure looks... "Pillar"-ish.
So SonicLorepost on Twitter made a thread about the E-Series Robots, and one of the things he brought up were the Egg Gunners from Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). Specifically, the design and it's similarities to the E-100 series.
Quote the one who made the connection:
What do you think about this little continuity theory?
I'm not sure how this affects our current undestanding of the timelines.
The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines
We can talk about things other than timelines. Continuity can be something referencing a previous events, like Sonic Heroes' "Seems like stubbornness is a saving grace for both of us.", or connecting elements, like the tiles seen in Sonic the Hedgehog (Mega Drive)'s Labyrinth Zone and Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles' Hydrocity Zone.
Besides, I think the best way to summarise the timeline is "up to Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) at least is canon to the single Earth and everything Sonic Colours onward is canon to the Two Worlds malarkey." There's a period where Naka left between 2006 and 2010 where the games might be canon to either one, depends on when they began production in regards to Iizuka becoming Head of Sonic Team.
Bloody hell, this is quite the thread.
I would like to agree with this theory and expand it a bit. Maybe fill in the gap between them.
In Sonic Battle we discover that Eggman sells robots to work as security guards. The mass produced models for commercial use are based on Gamma. In Sonic Riders Zero Gravity we know that Eggman owns a company called MeteoTech that sells gray robots. It's reasonable to assume that gray copies of Gamma from Sonic Battle are also sold through MeteoTech.
SCR-HD from MeteoTech introduced in Sonic Riders Zero Gravity have similar designs in style to 06 robots, so we could assume they are related. If they are related, they are also related to Gamma.
Robotnik has a birthyear of 1931.
If we assume that's still the case, and assume the series 'starts' at 1991, year of release, Robotnik started fighting Sonic when he was 60. If we add 4/5 years for a HYPOTHETICAL age/character design change, that sets Sonic Adventure 2 in 1995/1996, and if we take it back 50 years, to the ARK Incident, the ARK Incident would be in 1945/1946.
That would mean Robotnik was 14/15 when his cousin was killed and his grandfather was imprisoned. Maria was apparently only around 12 as well...
Too bad Sonic 1 wasn't supposed to be the first struggle between Sonic and Eggman. This would be a rare case where the modern lore does it better or at least we have to blame classic lore for the fault. Either way, the past events of SA2 seem to fit better in a later year, since it's more in line with the sci-fi style that came after the Roswell incident.
Indeed, I wouldn't see the ARK being a thing in the 1940s, but then again, they have hypersonic Hedgehogs, so I don't think our own world's development can apply.
Oh wait, that two worlds nonsense...
Well either way, Robotnik's nearing 90, apparently. Man's looking good for his age...
Bump bump bump
Not sure if this has ever been brought up before, so I'm just gonna ask here- has anyone ever talked about how generations's post credits cutscene explains the timeline split?
You mean the two eggmen trapped in white space? Yes, we talked about it. Me and someone else suggested being the end of every timeline as they're trapped in a dimension with nothing to work with to ensure an exit. Someone suggested they're geniuses and would figure out an exit with what they had on themselves, or, more probably, modern Eggman had a backup plan so something could take him out of that place, which could or could not mean classic Eggman would also flle from there, but I would add they wouldn't know how to send classic back to his time without a generations 2. You could say modern would have a tool that would send each one to their time and not just one of them, but he only had this big chance of meddling with time thanks to the time eater, so that wouldn't be an option without a big research or the odd Chaos Emeralds of Sonic '06 that trap themselves in an endless loop and undo everything that happened in their game.
tl;dr: Yes, but that's quite a can of worms.
Uh, wow. Okay.
I was actually talking about this snippet of dialogue:
Classic Eggman: "Let me just say that this was a brilliant plan that you came up with."
Modern Eggman: "Don't get too self-righteous, it'll be your plan pretty soon!"
Classic Eggman: "I'm gonna dedicate the rest of my life to forgetting it."
Modern Eggman right here changes the course of history. I can't explain the white space time shenanigans here, but basically when classic eggman escapes white space, since he's now literally dedicating his life to never trying the generations scheme (we all know for a fact that eggman is a stubborn b***h), he's deliberately going out of his way to not do what modern eggman did and thusly alters the timeline permanently.
If anyone can explain how white space factors into a timeline split and not a history rewrite, power to you lol.
I'm of the mind that Generations isn't canon since it claims that Classic Sonic is a younger version of Sonic, rather than an alternate dimension self. It being non-canon would also fix issues of canonicity surrounding 06.
In Forces, Sonic and Tails acknowledge having previously encountered Classic Sonic, indicating that Gens is considered canon.
Separate names with a comma.