The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

I mean, all a timeline does is point out what happens when. It's when you overcomplicate events that it breaks down, and that's not the timeline's fault.

 

I honestly don't get what people are getting up in arms over. From the fact they included Advance 2 and 3 but not 1 I think it's pretty obvious this isn't mean to be a complete list of canon games. It's just a timeline showing games that had significant events and/or introduced characters.

If I had to guess why they left out Advance 1, it's probably because of how irrelevant it is story and timeline-wise, having basically little to no plot and introducing no characters.

As for Chaotix, the SMS/GG games and classic arcade games, it might be that their placements are still undecided, or they don't want to set them in stone yet. Or maybe they're just deemed too obscure to bother including (though admittedly they included Shuffle).

 

The top of the Character page that links to the Sonic World Story even says that it's just a chronology of "important episodes".

https://sonic.sega.jp/SonicChannel/character/

ソニックシリーズの歴史を、各作品が紡ぐドラマとともに、年表として刻まれた軌跡で、重要なエピソードをあますところなく振り返る！

 

I'm with Blackhole on this one, in that I don't think a timeline does any particular harm. Sonic stories don't become less episodic or loose or low-stakes by saying what order they happen in and which entries are non-canon, and everything they actually have decanonized over the years has been pretty reasonable with obvious methodology. Can't use anything they don't have the rights for, can't use anything that was obviously built for a different continuity, and that's about it. It's different from establishing a world layout because slotting episodic low-stakes stories into an order doesn't really cause problems the way trying to fit an ever-expanding list of locations into a necessarily-finite planet design would.

Okay but the problem is that's stupid. Whatever their idea of "significant events" is somehow includes Shuffle and excludes Rivals, and that's stupid. Whatever their idea of "introducing characters" is includes Shuffle but excludes the storybook games, Dream Team and every game introducing a secondary classic-era cast member. It's obviously not a list of everything in the main canon...but it should be! I'm not sure what else a timeline is supposed to be for.

 

People are getting hung up on Shuffle but like I said it's a neat little game and it's Modern Sonic's second branded game (especially because Pocket Adventure is in the Phantom Legal Zone) on Sega's last console.

The story also makes it sort of a Sonic Adventure 1.5 despite the different genre.

But I think being part of the three Sonic Dreamcast games gave it that spot to highlight it and they got lucky it has sort of a story.

 

I don't understand why though...

I mean, that was obvious. Chip said they've been doing that for millions of years, while Frontiers stated the Ancients came to Earth "only" tens of thousands of years ago.

If I remember correctly, the new canon had established the mountain's name as Mount Mobius that is on Earth. I guess this is just a mistake.

Talking about simple, I think they settled that the real Phantom Ruby first appeared in Mania and then it was transported to Forces.
That was the most popular interpretation, but I remember (in this very thread) a suggestion that the real Phantom Ruby first appeared in Forces and that a prototype traveled to Mania.

 

That was because the concept art showed that the Phantom Ruby prototypes used the Mania design, and specifically listed it as being featured in Mania. IIRC the video it was shown in even stated as such. I also recall reading that according to Ian the Ruby in the Force prequel comic was supposed to be the original ore, but used the Mania/prototype design due to a mistake.

Also, didn't Headcannon tweet that Angel Island in Mania fell to the sea when the Phantom Ruby materialized in it and nullified the Master Emerald's effect, meaning that it didn't originate there? With the interpretation that it was there since the beginning, we have no explanation as to why the island was on the sea.

 

Yep, the art had the “original ore,” prototype, and final versions, and the prototype was stated to be the one that appears in Mania in its label. The new timeline doesn’t technically contradict that since in Japanese there are no articles or plurals, so it’s not necessarily the same ruby in each description.

 

From the horse's mouth: Don't take any plot points in the Games section as gospel.

 

I just had a conversation about this with my brother, this timeline has got me thinking about my opinions on sonic lore in general.
Sonic lore is obviously kind of non sense and all over the place, which personally isn't really a problem. What is, to me, is that it's just boring. I can tell that the lore team really wants something that is definitive and resolves as many plot holes as possible, but I can't help but think while reading this... so what? And obviously I'm invested in it, but that's because I have a little worm in my brain that forces me to act against my own self interest. I don't think it's that good.
Technically speaking, the lore of Sonic isn't much better or worse than anything else. Back when I first got into sonic in the game cube era, I actually really liked the stories of sonic games, especially the classic era. Mario games never bothered with plots or character dynamics or backstories like sonics 1-3, in my mind that's really what made sonic stand out. And usually I love digging into the lore of a series I'm interested in. But sonic lore, for some reason, just isn't that fun to dig into. And that really makes me wonder what makes "good" lore, and what makes series lore "fun" to learn about.

My main theories for what makes sonic lore unappealing (in my opinion):

1. In my mind, the purpose of a story is to convey emotion. As long as you are conveying that emotion, a story does not necessarily need to make logical or narrative sense. And modern sonic does not have a strong emotional core that it builds the lore around. What am I supposed to """feel""" reading about the ancients or mephelis or whatever? I think the sonic series in general is lacking in an emotional core, and my primary and only needed point of evidence is the UI in Sonic Frontiers. My personal opinion is that when your game's UI is just flat colored boxes with a sans serif font then your series is spiritually dead. It happened to pokemon. Look at the menus of sonic adventure: when I see that png stone texture and that rippling water background and those blue bubble buttons I am mentally transported to another world. It is expressing emotions to me not in the human lexicon. We used to be a real country (japan).

2. Without a definite world, lore just becomes a series of disconnected facts floating around unrelated to each other. I love learning the lore of One Piece, I love learning about background character #265 who is the half-brother of some side character from 7 years ago. I just like the feeling that everything in OP is connected, and that any minor detail might become relevant again. The fact that I know so much about the world of one piece instantly gives context to the characters within it, so there's already a jumping off point. The sonic series meanwhile can't decides if it wants to show us humans or not, and I am still unsure how knuckles became the last echidna or if he had parents or what.

3. Normies care about characters. Companies need to learn from FNaF what kids love about lore, if you put in the right stuff people will be consuming your lore through an IV drip. And the fact is, people love Purple Guy and hate Remnant or whatever they had in the books. Lore should be focused around characters: have an ancient kingdom? The story should focus on the ancient king. Have some ancient super weapon death laser? It just so happens to be pointed at the home town of our plucky protagonist. Have an huge war between two countries? Romeo and Juliet that shit. Nobody would care at all about the gaia cycle from unleashed if the story didn't focus on Chip and how it affected him- lore is only interesting in the context of how it affects the characters in the story. And honest shadow is the only character where lore is effectively integrated into his backstory and actually affects his current direction. Silver is cool, but they are vague about what even his future looks like anymore. Basically what I'm saying is make Amy the descendant of a magical bloodline of wizards.

 

I don’t care what Sega says...Spinball is canon. Haha. I was never good at it but hey it’s the only game that features the Freedom Fighters.

Anyway to me basically everything is canon in one way or another. Except Boom since it’s literally a separate version (I don’t hate it, I have Rise of Lyric but how could you even explain Knuckles size?)

So I’m not offended if they technically don’t view things the way I do. I agree with Blue Spikeball...I think they’re just highlighting certain events. Not kicking out games. Fang was introduced in Triple Trouble...I don’t think they’re saying that’s out now.

 

Okay there's a lot I disagree with in your post but I legitimately cannot think of a worse comparison than Five Nights at Fucking Freddy's. The reasons kids eat that shit up is because it's a jumpscare youtube-reaction game with legitimately good atmospheric audio design that they made like four of in one year and built up a substantial subculture around, not because any of the storytelling in the games are good. Literally only the first game works because it's just a conventional ghost story. The writing and "lore" in FNAF is complete dogshit, and doesn't even follow the character rule you're proposing, because there's like one guy that matters and his life is an endless string of failed pizza restaurants and murder, without so much as a personality trait between it all.

"Lore", itself, is completely overrated. The problem with Sonic's worldbuilding and timeline is that they're making it harder for themselves by refusing to commit to anything even though it actually works just fine. Sonic's world speaks through its environments, their atmosphere, aesthetic and music. Do we know anything about whatever society fell to ruin on South Island to leave Marble and Labyrinth behind? No, but we don't need to, because the game is about Sonic teaching that mean ol' Eggman a lesson. This is not made better by expositing random backstory crap about either Sonic or Eggman, because we get what they're about from minute 1. I do not want to see some tragic One Piece backstory for Sonic. Hell, if anything, I'd rather see a villain obsessed with Sonic finally learn his origin, only to be disappointed when it's nothing special, because Sonic speaks for himself. This is also true for One Piece, because what's most important in any One Piece story is that it works as a story. The fact that we had Vegapunk foreshadowing for fifteen years would've been worth nothing if Egghead had been a bad arc. "Lore" should never govern what makes for a satisfying story, and as fast and loose as Sonic plays with it, it does understand this lesson.

Sonic storytelling (and most storytelling in general) should always be focused on working on an individual level. Whether it fits together in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter that much, but the series hasn't made that many mistakes that can't be glossed over. The problem with the timelines and attempts at explaining things is that THEY DON'T DO THAT. They keep leaving holes for no reason! There's nothing wrong with establishing a definitive order for Sonic games, because it really is not that hard, because the games' stories are not that deep! They're simple, that's the point! Any Sonic game is designed to potentially be someone's first, and the ways they fit together are usually pretty obvious. The biggest disconnects were clarified years ago, but for some fuckin' reason they just can't seem to actually put all of this together in a readable fashion! Nothing about this LEGO set has bad instructions, they just refuse to give us all the pieces at the same time.

Spinball is canon. The manual is not.

 

I don't really care for this Timeline, it mainly serves as a recap for new fans, nothing too comprehensive and confusing at first glance.

I still think it's better to treat these timelines as suggestions at best, and the best way to learn about lore and timeliness are through archivist sites like here, Sonic Retro.

As for their picks for relevant/Canon games, it's mainly a representation of what Sonic team is mostly interested in and works with.
Sonic shuffle and riders are more consistent with their vision of the series than Rivals. And Sonic advance is rather uneventful.
The cynic in me also thinks they still don't want to bother with the comics.

 

I guess she fell to her death.

 

I dont think the writing of five nights at freddy's is good, it is in fact pretty bog standard and kinda trash. I do think though that there is something clever to it for it to be able to form such a substantial fan base, however. There were hundreds of FNaF lore recaps and game theory videos, people were very much invested in the lore at least up until 4. I think children just like learning about lore, they love memorizing lots of little titbits of useless information. Peoples brains have literally been rewired by memorizing all the names of pokemon. Sonic stories have tended to get simpler over time trying to capture a younger audience, and I'm saying kids actually like stories that while maybe not more complex, do have more background information to learn about.

I mean, yeah. But this is a thread specifically about sonic continuity, so I brought it up. I do think good lore does add to a story though, and I just wanted to clarify some of my ideas on what makes for good lore and bad lore. Basically good lore can't take a story from a 0 to a 10, but I think it can take a 6 to an 8. Additionally, Lore more than anything else can be fuel for discussion so I think a lot long running series add lore to encourage engagement between releases, so it's worth analyzing.

If you're referring to stuff like 2 worlds and whether classic sonic is from the past or not, I agree that they should've been more clear on that from the start. Though even if they were, I don't think it would've mattered. I just dont think sonic's lore is that interesting too learn about regardless of if it is consistent or not. If anything, the little inconsistencies and plot holes make it more engaging just because they are funny. I like learning that Silver canonically first appears in Rivals more than I do learning anything about the ancients.

Yeah, the actual story part is what makes a good story, but backstories can add a lot of extra oomph to push it over the top. Syrup Village was punctuated pretty effectively by Ussops backstory because it filled in the gaps on a character we were already interested in. Nami's flashback was a highlight of the Arlong Park arc and was genuinely amazing, and made the inevitable arlong beat down that much better when it happened. This stuff does matter, even if it isn't the only thing that makes a story good.

 

The appeal and hopefully the goal of a Sonic timeline is that Sega and Sonic Team are being more aware of general and recurring traits and mechanics in the franchise and having it influence future games.

Sega abandoning ideas or forgetting characters is something people complained about for decades, and regardless of how much sense a timeline makes, it does mean they remember shit like Marine the Raccoon or previous titles.

I don't expect an MCU-styled narrative where this is building up to something. It's just Sega's renewed interest in accepting all parts of Sonic and not just what is the most marketable or the least controversial.

So fuck yeah, Sonic Spinball is canon and Sega remembers it and wants you to remember it too. I do actually want Planet Mobius as its own world.

 

See I just don't think the content farms are a great bit of evidence for that. People went looking for answers because the games raised questions, but there was nothing to actually find at the end of the tunnel, just a lot of speculation. It's a bad example for Sonic to follow because the only thing holding it together was the promise that eventually something interesting would happen, but once the other shoe dropped people realized it was just a disappointing story all along. I'd hate for Sonic to do something like that because it sacrifices any of the stories working well on their own.

And I think the series has a perfectly good amount of useless information as it is. The most it sounds like you're actually asking for is more detailed bits of flavor dialogue or a compendium of tidbits and details to the setting or characters of each game that don't have any actual bearing on the plot. I'm not necessarily averse to that but I don't think it's doing much more than the regular stories already do.

My point is that a lack of needless fluff is not the main problem affecting Sonic storytelling at the moment. Since...I guess Unleashed, Sonic's writing problems have been stakes, tension, momentum. 06's cutscenes may not be good, but they were dynamic, always having something new happening pushing things forward. Sonic Frontiers has lots of great character dialogue and exposition, but most of what happens in the story is in the parts of the game you're actually playing.

Then the actual problem is that the writing behind a lot of Sonic's worldbuilding is kind of boring, not that it shouldn't be there or that they need to take a JJ Abrams mystery box approach.

Sorry, I think I may have miscommunicated something. A character's backstory is not inherently the same throwaway bit of worldbuilding as, like, Knuckles liking grapes. Most of the backstories in One Piece are directly relevant to the storytelling, the themes and ideas on display in each story are built up using them. They're not "lore", they're part of the main plots. My point is that indulging in background details on Sonic himself would either be pointless and irrelevant to the storytelling, or else weaken Sonic's character by tying him down to a history that necessarily can't be more interesting than the main plot. I'm just saying they don't need to demystify things.

 

I'm personally pleased with this timeline. Some of Sega's recent attempts at lore have suffered from painful over-explaining. But this timeline is good. It explains some stuff, leaves other stuff to headcanon (as it should), and is relatively straightforward as it isn't intended to be comprehensive.

And I dig the mention of Sonic Shuffle.

 

On the subject of Fnaf, I'd say folks are wrongly attributing its success to its lore.
More than anything, the success of any piece of creative concept is a shared sense of interest.

Other popular online sub-cultures like Friday night funkin, Sonic EXE and SCP were not developed because of some inherent quality they have (not saying they don't have that, just saying it's not necessary). They work because creatives online can share their work together, no matter how good or bad and build off of each other's ideas.
Its the same reason Sonic fandom scene is as creative and productive as it is.

 

I don't know what you're going on about.

Obviously, Sonic 3 isn't canon. Only Sonic and Knuckles happened. Tails was clearly never on Angel Island, ever. Isn't it obvious?

BTW, I've met Chris. He's a great guy and I don't envy the challenge of keeping all these details straight. For the time being, his words here make sense.

All that being said, I fully expect Iizuka or other leaders of the team to just make changes to everything he or Ian says one day without a second thought, not because Iizuka doesn't respect their western employees (I've also met him at conventions, and he's actually very polite and friendly and enjoys western fandom's reactions to everything), but because it's not uncommon for IP creatives (especially in Japan) to just retcon stuff on a whim when they have new ideas. In fact, I don't think there's any big 20+ year old IP in either the US or Japan that's immune to this kind of thing. They all do it.

So don't get too caught up on any one lore idea being absolute gospel. Rewriting lore is actually normal in big IPs and people need to get used to it. That's why headcanon is a thing.