The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

I agree, what you do in the stages barely ever has anything to do with what happens in the story. Black Doom is more angry at Shadow for ignoring him in the neutral path of Westopolis than for killing a bunch of his soldiers in the Hero path.

Personally, I always found "determining the canon path" to be better-understood as structuring the stages in a traditional linear Sonic game order and working backward from there. Look at this horrible thing I made a while back:

Spoiler

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons this doesn't work, but if I were modding or remastering the game to remove this stupid mechanic entirely (I genuinely think it adds little to nothing to the game other than padding), this is the kind of blueprint I'd be working from. I think most of the cutscenes would need a change of location more than a change of dialogue, though I admit getting Shadow to switch from following Black Doom back to working with the heroes would be a hard sell no matter what.

 

Yeah, the Together with Maria isn't perfect, but it goes off intent (Shadow is just dismissive of the whole invasion and wants the Chaos Emeralds, quick revenge arc on Prison Island until Maria's memory coaxes him back) and story beats (Robotnik, G.U.N. Commander, etcetc).

I'd say we do need to consider the missions, since finding Cream is one of the missions, so we know they're being done on some level.

Getting to Cryptic Castle requires Shadow to team up with the Black Arms and murder a bunch of G.U.N. Soldiers, then destroy their communication network and cause a blackout in comms, or not bother with the Black Arms until Black Doom gets angry and teleports him to the Glyphic Canyon, then suddenly be alright with the idea of helping them via launching their Temple Ships they dropped on Earth 2,000 years ago. And then hang out with Black Doom on the ruins, since it would be the Hero Mission and so he'd always end up in Sky Troops.

So of the Library Sequences most canonically inclined (but not entirely due to structure):

Together with Maria... (ignores finding Cream):
Westopolis (Find Chaos Emerald, Black Doom gets irritated)
Glyphic Canyon (Find Chaos Emerald)
Prison Island (Flashbacks and Revenge)
The Doom (Help Maria, basically mini-Sonic Adventure 2 repeat)
Iron Jungle (Shoot down Robotnik's balloon, then confront the Egg Breaker for the Android plotpoint)
Cosmic Fall (G.U.N. Commander is confronted here)
Egg Dealer (so Black Doom is not confronted before Last Story)

Original Definition:
Westopolis (Attack G.U.N.)
Digital Circuit (Shut down the United Federation's comms)
Cryptic Castle (Find Cream)
Sky Troops (Hang out with Black Doom for a bit, then take the Chaos Emerald)
Iron Jungle (Shoot down Robotnik's balloon, then confront the Egg Breaker for the Android plotpoint)
Cosmic Fall (G.U.N. Commander is confronted here)
Egg Dealer (so Black Doom is not confronted before Last Story)

ARK, Colony of Pathos:
Westopolis (Find Chaos Emerald, Black Doom gets irritated)
Glyphic Canyon (Launch the Temples)
Cryptic Castle (Find Cream)
Sky Troops (Hang out with Black Doom for a bit, then take the Chaos Emerald)
Iron Jungle (Shoot down Robotnik's balloon, then confront the Egg Breaker for the Android plotpoint)
Cosmic Fall (G.U.N. Commander is confronted here)
Egg Dealer (so Black Doom is not confronted before Last Story)

I suppose of the three, 'ARK, Colony of Pathos' would be the most canonically inclined, since you launch the Temples and then use them in Sky Troops, plus helping Cream, and the subsequent order of Iron Jungle, Cosmic Fall, Egg Dealer. I feel it goes against Shadow's indifference at the start, hence the preference towards 'Together with Maria...' but I suppose he felt he could opt to use the ruins to get the Chaos Emeralds quicker?

Either way, based on confirmed events alone as far as I can recall at the moment, 'ARK, Colony of Pathos' would be the path that covers those.

I'm convinced they swapped the levels and didn't update the cutscene to reflect the change in Hero/Neutral paths.

 

The problem with Cosmic Fall is that Eggman tells Shadow that Gerald created him (42:35). Also Shadow starts the last story with him retrieving the last emerald on the Black Comet with no bosses around and he says "now I can find my real answers" instead of "that is my answer". Which is none of the endings.

So I think the true path is Shadow doing an unobtainable neutral path in Black Comet or Final Haunt. Since we need Iron Jungle or Mad Matrix, either works.

Maybe: Westopolis (neutral) > Glyphic Canyon (dark) > Cryptic Castle (Hero) > Sky Troops (neutral) > Iron Jungle (dark) > Black Comet **neutral**

edit: I just checked, Black Comet (hero) is just Shadow getting the chaos emerald. How about instead of fighting Eggman afterwards, he just goes off without Knuckles and finds the last Emerald. That fits perfectly. Path 128 is the most likely canon path imo

 

Except the G.U.N. Commander doesn't encounter Shadow on 'The Road to Self-Assurance', which is noted in Hero Mode as well. So that wouldn't be the route if we're looking to follow the specifically noted events.


For the thing about Robotnik telling him about Gerald creating him, that same guy also claimed he built him not a fight ago (Egg Breaker). So Shadow has no idea which answer is correct, since Robotnik has just confirmed he'd lie whichever way suits his current predicament.

 

Yeah personally I think the canon route is an amalgamation of everything, the point of shth is just to show you what Shadow can be driven to do in the right contexts.

 

I'm just looking to find the most canonically likely path of the game. Honestly, I'm surprised people haven't pointed out Hero Mode can't exactly be canon since Gerald, Maria and Black Doom encourage Shadow when two of those have been, y'know, dead for 50 years and the latter MIA until Shadow Generations and probably wouldn't be encouraging Shadow after the whole 'killing him' thing?

 

Big news? JP Sonic Channel has added an official timeline of events. It omits a ton of stuff that's definitely still canon like Advance and Rivals (Rivals is a weird one, maybe because it never got a JP release?) and most of the classic spinoffs, but otherwise it officializes some stuff we've sort of had on the periphery for a while, like Battle and Advance 3 being after Shadow, Sonic 4 taking place after the Classic era (and Death Egg MKII being destroyed), Rush being before 06 (which was only ever in question by headcanon, admittedly), and TSR being set before Forces. Also, hey! Sonic Shuffle is still canon! Who'da thunk it.

Really hope there's some sign we could get a localized version of this...or just one that adds in all the shit that's clearly missing.

EDIT: Also I guess Riders 1 takes place after 06 and Free Riders takes place after Generations? Okay.

 

Ufff, can you imagine if there were a few surviving ancients who hadn't turned into Chao yet, seeing Dark Gaia destroy their new planet?

 

Oh shit, this site actually has a lot of stuff. Oh shit! It has an English button!


...ah. Well it's...more than nothing.

The character chart brings back the "Team Dark" name. But it unfortunately fails to include IDW characters, Prime, Sticks, Eggman Nega or any of the Classic-Era cast who weren't in Superstars.

...You can just make a Sonic Forces avatar right on the site.

 

And logic, since Sonic never reacts to Blaze, which you think he would after the last time they saw each other their worlds nearly merged.

It's pretty neat to see. Not how I'd handle it, but neat regardless.

EDIT Also, hey, I was right there was a Gaia Rebirth Cycle between the Ancients Landing and the modern era.

 

There are a lot of character traits I expect from Sonic that he doesn't show in that game.

 

I mean, even a nod would do, but they just ignore each other's existence.

Honestly, I just assume Sonic Rush is after the paradox and Blaze just knows Sonic from researching ways to defeat Iblis and seeing things like "Sonic saves Station Square" just to save the headache, since if Blaze and Sonic met before it, they don't act like it bar a couple of comments from Blaze, while if they met after... well, they can't since Iblis destroyed the Earth on that timeline of events.

I think Sonic Rush was intended to be after as well, since I recall Shiro Maekawa intended Iblis to be the source of Burning Blaze, hence her appearing to turn into the form in Silver's final cutscenes, and Blaze asking Silver to seal her in a different dimension was meant to lead to her presence in the Sol Dimension. SEGA just changed their minds after, probably when Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) was considered one of the worst games made.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not writing it, so I've got no say in things.

 

Thing is, Silver doesn't do anything after she asks him that, and then she just disappears anyway. But that whole scene and the last act of his campaign is fuckin' stupid to begin with, so whatever.

Either way, I don't find the idea of Iblis as Burning Blaze or the source of the Sol dimension to be all that compelling, and it's not worth the headache of rationalizing Blaze knowing Sonic and being from the future. At least, it's not easier to rationalize than "Sonic and Blaze didn't say anything to each other because it was a crisis situation and they were both busy". I can't rightly think it was meant to be like that in development either, since I just don't think they'd repeatedly say in promo material and profiles and the leaked script that Blaze was from the Sol dimension if she wasn't actually from the sol dimension. I don't think her cut dialogue would be talking about Sonic like this if he were just some guy she'd heard about. If that was indeed Maekawa's intent at some point, it didn't last to the end of development.

 

Sorry, I was unclear: I just meant that as an example that Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) originated as a prequel of Sonic Rush, not that Iblis is the source of Burning Blaze nor that she's from the future.

I mean, they could've had a nice chat before hoping into the time portal. Plus, Sonic could've asked if the Sol Emeralds would be of use, which would be a legitimate enquiry.

I recall a document with profiles outlining the character's stories up to before the game's development (bar those introduced into the game). Which document are you referring to? Is it the one where it says Silver, not Shadow, is going after Mephiles?

Depends on the context of the line, really. She might have had a cut role in the Last Story. But I'm not here to argue, let's just agree to disagree.

 

Wasn't expecting a whole ass timeline drop.

 

I know, I've just never liked it as a theory.

If they didn't get as far as thinking "hey, maybe we should make sure Sonic actually does save Elise before we go to the future, especially since it's clearly exactly the fucking same when we get there" they're not gonna have that bigger brainwave to begin with.

I mean the old website, the JP manuals, and this thing, which is where the Silver/Trunks comparison and those comments about Blaze's boob insecurity and stuff comes from. It's not just character outlines, it's the full game story. I admit I've never actually looked through the whole thing to check the differences, but I don't think it clears up anything about Blaze's role in the story.

 

I dunno if anyone mentioned it yet, but on Spinball's page they directly name drop Mobius.
https://sonic.sega.jp/SonicChannel/gametitle/SonicSpineball.html
Never thought they'd ever acknowledge that again, honestly.

 

If I'm honest this whole thing is kind of starting to annoy me. People are going to look at this timeline and think that anything unmentioned is no longer canon. And what the heck is the point of making a big page of all your characters if it's not actually all of them? Why does Mephiles get a page and a link to SXSGenerations, but Black Doom, the actual antagonist of that game, just isn't there? Why does the timeline mention Mighty and Ray for Mania Plus but not let them have character pages? Why are the events of TSR mentioned but no link given to thew game? It all smacks of not having a clear picture of who you're writing for, because this is all too hairy and mired in baggage to get a new fan acclimated to the series' chronology, and for hardcore fans, it's missing too much to serve as any attempt at a comprehensive timeline because of all the stuff we know is supposed to be there. It's one thing to not bother including every promo animation and comic, but my personal list has 51 games, and this only has 29, missing almost half of them (and that's including TSR without a page).

I'm sure that the people they hired for "the lore team" and whom they decided to call "the lore team" would love to write a lore book. Call it "The World of Sonic the hedgehog"? List out the games and comics in order, give us a few details on each characters' personal histories, link some locations together even if you don't want to tie the series to a map that's going to get dated? I feel like that wouldn't be that hard to do. And yes, I know why they may not want to do that...but if they don't want to give us all the answers, what the hell is the point of this half-measure timeline? Catering to friggin' ghosts, I guess.

 

I really miss the Rivals series and the Game Gear games.

Other than that...

I thought "Gizoid" was the actual name of Emerl, not a whole class of robots. Am I misremembering or is this a retcon?


Are we never gonna have a Sonic 5 with Classic Sonic now?


I was hoping to have something about Blaze being here in 06.