The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

His mom got pregnant in space, they came to Earth to have him, and later they went back to Ark to raise him there.

 

I don’t think that particular word choice is that big of a problem - there are lots of ways to interpret the line that don’t conflict with the journal. The Towers brought Abe to the ARK in the same way they brought him into the world. Or Maria was too young to learn about the birds and the bees when she was told Abe’s background and no one got around to correcting her. Incidentally, what does the Japanese version of that text box read?

Likewise, I know it was previously mentioned that the journal depicts Shadow awakening without his gloves and shoes, which contradicts the flashbacks seen in both Shadow 05 and Shadow Gens in which he has his usual adornments prior to waking. In this case, I’d argue the photographic evidence in the journal represents the canonical events. The in-game flashbacks were contextualized as memories of Tower and Shadow, and thus potentially unreliable (especially since Shadow’s memories aren’t historically all that trustworthy to begin with, especially for an event he wasn’t even conscious for).

 

I'll have to play through the game in Japanese to get it and get it translated, unless Windii's working on it and posts it as we discuss this like the Robotnik conversation from Shadow the Hedgehog?

Maria's only talking about how Shadow's real family, them, want him to be happy, the strict teacher and Shadow enjoying Maria's Chao ecology report, and Maria visiting Spagonia with family when she was healthier after saying the ARK's food just doesn't compare to Earths, and asking Shadow if he has a favourite food as she's only really seen him with coffee.

 

I was wondering, how exactly did Black Doom survive events of „Shadow The Hedgehog”? Was it the larvae living on ARK, growing up and becoming another Black Doom? Did he transfer his mind to it, when he Was dying in Devil Doom form? Was he somehow reborn, because of Time Eater? I guess not, because we clearly see him standing in the ARK before Time Eater attack.

so many questions…

 

I can't find specific instances off hand, but Ian has said a few times on the Bumblecast that it was his intent that the larva seen in Dark Beginnings was still around and Black Doom grew out of it.

 

Come to think of it, is it possible there were other survivors of the Black Arms? Shadow destroyed the Black Comet, but with their numbers spread across the planet one would think there would be lots of remaining troops at least some of whom could have escaped detection. Unless Black Doom recalled all forces to the comet upon release of the nerve gas - but that seems strategically unsound when he and the larvae are apparently immune to the gas anyway.

 

Not only that, but if Black Arms conquered countless worlds, and the race is a hive mind, there should be… multiple Black Dooms on other worlds? Or do they just conquer a world, devour it (like Galactus) and move on somewhere else? Or must a larvae be in somewhat close proximity to the current Black Doom, so it can grow into the leader?

To me, Black Arms are somewhat like Bees - we have a queen (Black Doom), workers etc. The main difference being, that Doom hive mind abilities allow him to be reborn with all of his memories.

If he indeed, grew up from the larvae on ARK, maybe it was some kind of royal larvae. It makes sense, because Shadow was created from „his” DNA. Kinda weird that GUN didn’t dispose of it after the raid.

 

Perhaps in the chaos of the raid, the larva escaped and hid out in a remote section of the ARK. It is kinda funny to consider that by warping the station back into orbit in SA2, Shadow unintentionally ensured Black Doom could come back after he killed him. It does beg the question of what was happening to said larva during "The Promised Time", did BD just ignore it so it could be used as a backup plan?

Something else that's confused me about Doom in this game, how exactly is he conjuring Radical Highway? It's clear he's able to do this without the need for White Space, is it just a hallucinogenic/telepathic illusion he's projecting into Shadow's mind or is it some real construct?

 

I miss the two timelines theory.

Currently my biggest discomfort is everyone in Forces not remembering Mania (which was previously a non-issue).

 

I mean, Sonic Forces' entire story is a mess, let alone them not referencing another game. I'd like Robotnik to remember that if he needs a source of power for the Phantom Ruby, which came up several times, he can use the Master Emerald, a source of infinite power, that he saw Knuckles leave alone on Angel Island. Amongst the massive mess that is the Phantom Ruby storyline.

I'm just assuming they didn't reference it because it's one of many adventures, and it's not special since they don't realise the Phantom Ruby of that game is related to the Phantom Ruby of this game in some form.

Not to mention the inverse is also an issue, since Encore Mode makes it even more confusing: the Phantom Ruby got shattered, then... was intact again to take Classic Sonic back?

 

This was regarding Iizuka supposedly saying that the pure hero path for shadow 05 is canon. I looked for a few pages but I didn't see a conclusion to this. I'm guessing the quote was never found?

Also what does everyone think of using this for a look at Shadow 05's canon path:

Sega did officially market it for SxSG. It has Shadow beating Eggman for the white emerald, which is Cryptic Castle and Shadow beating Sonic to the light blue emerald, which is Space Gadget hero.

However, that means you can't do Iron Jungle hero or Mad Matrix which is where Eggman tells Shadow he created him.

"Eggman" also tells Shadow that in Sonic Heroes after Bingo Highway but we later learn that was Metal Sonic instead.

 

Yeah, there's no known source. Everyone throws it around, but it seems to be an Uncle at Nintendo situation regarding the interview.

I'd disagree: I believe the most logical one is the "Together with Maria" route of Westopolis, Glyphic Canyon, Prison Island, The Doom, Iron Jungle, Cosmic Fall then Egg Dealer, since it covers all the plot beats mentioned later (Robotnik telling him he's a robot in Iron Jungle, fights Robotnik but doesn't kill him in this Egg Dealer, the Commander Confrontation in Cosmic Fall, etcetc):


It's also the easiest to lead into the Last Story, since he doesn't fight Black Doom and all he does is vow to protect the ARK: Last Story opens with "I can find my real answers" in Japanese, so...

 

I see why that would be Iron Jungle > Cosmic Fall > Egg Dealer but why do we need Glyphic Canyon > Prison Island > The Doom?

 

I mean, it’s Shadow 05. You don’t need most of it. The branching narrative, while a neat idea, doesn’t really end up cohesive in just about any play through.

 

It just seems to be the most logical: Shadow's goal is to collect the Chaos Emeralds, he's uninterested in the ongoing Black Arms Incursion from the start, so in Westopolis and Glyphic Canyon he's doing just that.

Prison Island, he starts awakening memories of his past, which leads into The Doom, literally a memory of the past in level form rather than randomly hanging with the Black Arms for Sky Troops. In The Doom, Shadow would help Maria.

 

I see what you mean but honestly I think Shadow would do Westopolis dark based on his reaction to humans in the intro cutscene where he is by the tree. Shadow's personality in that cutscene and the Westopolis dark ending cutscene fit perfectly. I believe they also have a cutscene after any second stage where they say GUN's servers were breached which is Digital Circuit but of course that can happen regardless of whether Shadow was there or not.

I think that Shadow starting with the dark path for at least Westopolis is also better for storytelling reasons (Shadow starts off bad but then realizes the Black Arms are the enemy) but of course that doesn't matter in canonicity debates. Your path that has Prison Island dark to Iron Doom hero is pretty cool too though.

I wouldn't mind if Sega tells us Shadow actually ended at Final Haunt or Black Comet, where Shadow just does an unobtainable neutral ending that leads into the final story. That would be cool.

I wish they would tell us already. SxSG not having any Shadow 05 stages was a bad decision imo

 

In the Japanese version, he just dismisses the attack as "Hmph, whatever happens to the Humans is none of my business...", so I don't think he'd be actively aggressive as he's just completely uninterested in the attack until Black Doom goads him in.

2:50


Localisation is always fun.

 

Wow, even the final line says he needs to get the chaos emeralds instead of believing Black Doom

Conpletely different implications

 

That one, you can find in the Summaries, so it's not so far out of left field.

0:35

 

I don't think the goal in each level should be criteria for determining the canon path. Killing aliens, or killing humans, or going straight ahead to the end, is just gameplay mechanic. The cutscenes (and a few lines here and there) are the important thing, only.