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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    The Gerald's Journal in Shadow Generations states that the Biolizard was based on a salamander (which is not, well, a lizard) because of their renegerative capabilities, but doesn't explain why Shadow was ultimately a hedgehog. And there's a line of dialogue in which Maria says "I was a little surprised you turned out looking like a hedgehog".

    So, the theory that the murals inspired Gerald is kind of dead, but at the same time we still don't have an explanation on why Shadow is a hedgehog, and this was the best place to explain this.
     
  2. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    To me, it feels like one of those mysteries that's simply dictated by fate—like Sonic's enigmatic past or the origin of his powers.

    A Robotnik from the past created the ultimate life form in the form of a hedgehog. In the present, a Robotnik battles a hedgehog with those same abilities. And in the future (if Eggman Nega is still part of the story), yet another Robotnik has yet another hedgehog to contend with.

    Why? Maybe it’s just fate.
     
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Just as where there's a Joker, there's a Batman to combat him, where there is a Robotnik, there is a Hedgehog to combat him.

    Because Shadow does ultimately combat Gerald, via stopping his revenge scheme.
     
  4. Only for viewing

    Only for viewing

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    black doom has a line in the game where he assumes shadow looking like a hedgehog is gerald's doing
     
  5. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Really? I missed that one.
     
  6. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    27:35


    "Gerald may have given him this puny form, but he has the same fierce blood of the Black Arms in his body as I do."
     
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  7. Shade Vortex

    Shade Vortex

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    Gonna need a source on this. Also, which game? ShtH or Shadow Generations?

    I honestly don't remember this, and I feel like something like this would be an important enough quote to include on Shadow's wiki page, for example.

    Edit: ...that explains it, JP script only... Well, as an English localization-only viewer, I didn't see that scene with that translation.
     
  8. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It's in the English version as well, sorry, I just use Japanese for anything continuity-related.
     
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  9. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I remember that now. Thank you.


    Yeah I don't quite like it. Because Gerald had a reasoning for choosing a salamander at his first attempt. So he should have a reasoning for choosing a hedgehog later. And it was not Black Doom's suggestion (I mean, it wouldn't make any sense anyway).
    So Gerald must have known something about hedgehogs that would fit into what he was seeking during Project Shadow.
     
  10. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    Well that's the mystery, why did he pick a hedgehog? Did he know something or was it a coincidence/fate?

    It's one of those things that I think if it's explained it would take the magic from it.

    Sort of like Frontiers showing where the Chaos Emeralds come from.

    Because it would retroactively explain something about why Sonic is special and bring questions if every hedgehog in Sonic's world has some kind of potential in them.

    Though I know leaving somethings unexplained is not everyone's cup of tea.
     
  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The most I can say is, with his interest in Echidna ruins, while I don't believe the mural has any bearing on Shadow's form, Hydrocity also has statues of Sonic, so the hedgehog theory is not limited to just Gerald finding Hidden Palace:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Iizuka said it was intentionally left a mystery in the Fearless - Year of Shadow interview a few months ago:
     
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  13. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    I forgot about that video.

    You know, before that interview I always wondered if the Biolizard might've been part Black Arms itself and then the process was perfected with Shadow.

    I guess the Biolizard can do Chaos Control the same way Sonic and Silver can, and not because it has Black Arms DNA.
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Honestly, that's what I thought: that it was their first attempt with Black Arms DNA, and Shadow was the perfected version once all the kinks were worked out with the process, since it shares the red and black colour scheme and Chaos Control.
     
  15. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    That sounds to me as "we just made him a hedgehog because of Sonic, we don't have an in-universe explanation yet".
     
  16. Entry #616 in Gerald’s journal reads, “Using [Black Doom’s] DNA, I was able to overcome every hurdle ‘Project: Shadow’ had put before me. The small, sturdy biped I developed can perfectly interact with [Chaos Emerald] energy.” After the unwieldy Biolizard, it seems the combination of a more compact form with Black Arms genetics allowed for a breakthrough.

    This actually aligns surprisingly well with something I posted a few months back in reference to the mural theory. It’s sheer headcanon, but following the release of the journal, it slots right in as a hypothetical chapter between entries #568 and #616.

    I imagine a scenario in which Gerald, agonizing over the failure of the Biolizard and the need to completely reboot Project Shadow, turns to ancient Echidna research. Perhaps he does so merely out of comfort and relaxation, briefly forcing his mind to ponder something besides scientific data related to the ultimate life form, a scientific equivalent to curing writer’s block.

    During this bout of research, he comes across images of the mural. Perhaps he took photographs of the mural himself on Angel Island, or Lost World, or perhaps they were taken by someone else entirely. Aesthetically he’s fascinated by the appearance of the super being depicted, and perhaps he even humorously notes the resemblance of the opposite mustachioed figure to himself. Why did the ancient Echidna depict a seeming non-Echidna in this mural in what appears to be a heroic context? Perhaps he knows from the runes surrounding the artwork that the mural is a prophecy, that the spiky being represents a hedgehog who is very powerful, a protector. He muses that in essence, that is his wish for Project Shadow, to create a being that offers a chance of life to those like Maria.

    He’s struck with inspiration: perhaps he was approaching Project Shadow from the wrong perspective in focusing on the regenerative abilities of lizards. Scientific research has suggested that hedgehogs are particularly adept in channeling Chaos energy. Basing the Ultimate Lifeform on a hedgehog could prove more stable. His mind newly invigorated and buzzing with ideas, Gerald begins his earliest designs for the next stage of Project Shadow.
     
  17. Shade Vortex

    Shade Vortex

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    I guess I didn't really put much thought to that sentence, it's something said in a pretty casual conversation so it's not something I specifically put importance/focus on, I guess. Sorry for my mistake, and thanks for the correction!

    I guess it's definitely likely that Gerald did indeed use the mural for Sonic's Hedgehog form, and it would make sense. Honestly, given how much they'd hyped Gerald's journal, I was hoping that it would have answered more questions than it actually did...
     
  18. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It's very unlikely according to the Journal: he got to the Altar of Emerald, then turned and left as he felt he shouldn't be there, so didn't explore deep enough to get to Hidden Palace.

    But then the journal causes confusion with Abraham's backstory, so...
     
  19. Roller

    Roller

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    How does it cause confusion? Gerald implies that Tower was concieved in space as a "happy little accident", and Maria says that her family were initially convinced it was safe because he was being raised there. Is there a contradictory component in the mix somewhere?
     
  20. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Maria says his parents brought him there, which is kind of hard if he's already aboard the ARK due to being born there. And he was hardly a happy little accident if he was taken there.

    21:33