The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

New Tails Tube, and Jewel was mentioned.

 

I hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it

 

Sega has been saying they want all their Sonic products to feel like one cohesive universe going forward for almost two years now and people still treat it as shocking news anytime it actually happens

 

That was so unexpected I actually had to pause and do a double take. Fucking Jewel is now canon the games? Waht?

(I knew I should've expected this but it's still a surprise to me)

 

I don't like it, I love it, love it, love it, uh oh
So good it hurts

It’s nice that the comics clearly mean something to the franchise now, as opposed to the Archie days where they were entirely divorced from one another. Let the grand tapestry unfurl yet further!

 

It’s still feels weird to me, but I can’t say I hate it. The IDW comics are inoffensive at worst and don’t really affect the games the way Archie would have.

 

Probably since they're not very good at it, constantly trying to cut things while pretending everything is fine.

And, of course, the whole thing with Sonic Prime. I'm just waiting for that to be addressed with "oh, the entire thing was a prequel, the games spawned from this universe!"

 

I think the integrations have been mostly fine outside of sonic prime

Unless prime ends up being a series prequel, I do not believe that it is actually connected to the games, or at least was never made to be. Sonic canon already kinda doesn't make sense but prime just kinda, ignores way too much to be actually tied to the games as far as I'm concerned at least

 

There have been indications that Prime began development before the consolidation of the "lore team".

Here's a fun note I've been thinking about since that was floated: The points in the first batch of episodes that were closer to Origins' depiction of events... were all the pixel art animations, which I'd wager has a shorter turnaround time than CG animation.

 

IIRC, Ian confirmed this in a Bumblekast. I gotta find that specific episode.

 

I don't know if it's on YouTube right now but Ian Flynn said he got involved with Sonic Prime very early on.

 

Sticks has been a part of the cast in Sonic Channel for a few years up to this point, and there's a piece of art by Karasuno showing Cosmo's plant from the last episode of X. Sure, you can argue that this is a new Sticks and that the plant is just a normal plant that doesn't share the same history as the one it is referencing, but I could say the same for Tangle being referenced in Frontiers. The games (and material related to them) have made so many references to non-game material that I don't think I could list all of them in a post of reasonable length (actually, I could, but that's not the point)

To be fair, the restoration being name dropped might be the most specific reference to a non-game element we've ever got (I mean, there's also Eggman mentioning Starline in the takeover? I don't know, couldn't care less about it). Unlike Sticks and a random background plant, the restoration's existance implies that IDW's events (or a version if it) happened, otherwise, you'd be left wondering what's the conection between the organization and the main cast and stuff like that. They also keep telling us IDW is canon, so it's not the same situation as Boom and X being referenced. But unlike those shows, IDW was always written to fit with the games and be a sequel to one of them, so it's always going to be less intrusive to have IDW concepts appearing in the games.

It bothers me more that they're making sure to remind me how much canon a comic that I hate is, but that's far from the first time this series has gone to a direction I dislike and I made peace with that fact. I believe it's more productive to criticize how their doing it, rather than the fact they're doing it at all at this point

 

I’d be interested in hearing why you hate the IDW book. I concede that I have a horse in the race, but I struggle to think of anything it does as truly incensing anybody.

Anyway, I think, if there was any doubt that IDW is intended to be canon, it’s dead and buried with a stake through its heart at this point. I already felt it was fully confirmed with the Tangle reference in Frontiers, but what we’ve got here is far more specific to the degree that I’d ask anyone who’d argue that it’s just a different version of the Restoration and Starline “what’s even the point in that?”. It’s pretty clear at this point that whenever they make these references, it’s following the intuitive assumption that IDW Sonic occurs between the games, as opposed to the copium that it’s happening but not really as if that somehow makes it better for the people who don’t want it to.

 

My main problem with Sticks and IDW is that the modern characters never interacted with them in game, so it's confusing when Sonic mentions Tangle, or Tails mentions Jewel, because game wise, they've never heard of them till that point. My friends never read the comics, so when they reference IDW, they go, "Who's/what's that?".

 

Maybe I'll make a post on the IDW thread to explain it properly without derailing this one. In short, a lot of my problems with IDW boils down to "it takes the series into a direction that I'm really not interested at all" with things such as how the theme of giving people second chances is being handled

 

I’ve said this before, but this is a point that doesn’t hold water to me personally, because you could say the same for basically any reference to something prior. I’d wager that a huge chunk of Forces’ players were kids who were born after 2008 and had no idea who the Chaotix, Shadow, Rouge, Silver etc. are but accepted them as just people Sonic knows all the same. I really don’t see how it’s any different with the IDW originals. Treat them more or less as any other returning character Sonic already knows because he does, and if people want to know more, literally all you need to do is plug the character’s name into a search engine and you can find out immediately that there’s whole new realm of Sonic stories waiting to be explored.

 

Basically...


It's becoming the same problem I have with modern Star Wars: I expect the story in the (game/movie) to be contained because that will be people's interest, not basically requiring someone to go find and read a comic in order to understand something in them.

Fortunately, at this point, it's only small references unlike Star Wars, but I will be thoroughly annoyed if they bring up the Metal Virus or other comic exclusive plot as a key factor in the background plot of a game.

 

I can’t speak to Star Wars as it currently exists because I’ve not watched any of it since I was little, but even with that, you can’t just jump on at Return of the Jedi and understand what’s going on. In almost any series with a persistent setting, there’s going to be an accumulation of concepts from past entries that new audiences just won’t know the context of and have to either just accept them at face value or go and find that context for themselves if they want to.

I do think it’d be unwise to make a game that heavily depends on understand of the comics for its story to be fully comprehended, but I’d say Sonic hasn’t done that since Shadow the Hedgehog. The series focus is firmly on moving forward and telling new stories, so I don’t think we’ll ever be in a position where a game is coming out and the hook is that the Metal Virus is back and that’s pivotal to the plot.

But I firmly believe you can just treat Tangle, Whisper, Rough, Tumble and Mimic as any other character and just pop them into the story with minimal need to explain their deal. Surge and Kit would require a little more explaining but I think that’s all really doable in a way that doesn’t confuse people because you can fit the crux of their deal and why they do what they do on a post-it note.

The last recurring character before Frontiers gave us Sage, to the best of my memory, is Zavok, introduced nine years ago. The last recurring supporting character is Silver, introduced 17 years ago. Both of these guys showed up in Forced with next to no explanation of who they are other than their allegiance and the fact that Silver’s from the future and it’s never been something I’ve seen anyone complain about. Treating comic characters the same way is barely a step past that and, ultimately, I think stating that their appearance in games would confuse people kind of just disregards that
a) Casual audiences aren’t necessarily what the perception of them here suggests they are and don’t need to have everything immaculately explained - they can just accept these things
b) If they do want an explanation, they are entirely capable of using Google and potentially discovering a new interest.

 

Franchise universes die not based on what elements are being shared between mediums but whether an individual product is satisfying in its own right. I would venture that nearly anything can come and go from the comics to the cartoons to the games, so long as it is contextualized such that the audience is guaranteed to get its intended effect, even if that effect is stronger for people who had the prior context already. Sure, Marvel and Star Wars are struggling with their relation to other parts of their respective canons, but that's as much a product of a given piece of them not working in its own right as anything else. I would even venture that people who are interested in and following the stories of all these universes probably aren't getting much out of them either, because they're simply not doing a whole lot with the concepts involved.

By contrast, look at, say, Scrapnik Island. You absolutely do not need to have played S3K, Advance or Adventure to understand what's going on there (and it's not like the comics adapted them), but the story uses Mecha Sonic, Mecha Knuckles and the E-series to a great extent. There is absolutely no reason other properties can't do the same, they just aren't because they simply aren't good at it.

 

Doctor who constantly brings back villains and concepts from the classic series or the comics and it works quite well. I see no reason why they couldn't put some IDW characters in the next game and introduce their characters without flash backs to the comics or what ever. Using Tangle for example all it needs is Sonic fighting badniks with Tangle coming in and helping with her tail followed by a "hey Tangle, long time no see".