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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Timey Wimey, it's a direct event rather than indirect, it takes place in space so is not as effected by Earth's timeline, gravity warping time as evidenced in the super-dense blackholes (hi!) and it taking place in Earth's orbit, etc.

    There's a few handwaves that could be employed, though we may never really know the intent. All I know is, Green Hill Zone and Chemical Plant Zone are blanks to Sonic and Tails until they start remembering that they were there once. Sonic Forces further muddies the water via Green Hill Zone being Sonic's favourite place to run, that he apparently forgot about.

    Being blunt, I'd vote to leave developer intent out because, honestly, the entire thing is a goddamn mess. Nothing about it makes sense when you look at it for more than two seconds, and it collapses under the slightest bit of thought. Not to mention Developer Intent was Three Worlds (Classic Sonic's, Modern Sonic's and Human Worlds), which has since been removed, thankfully. The Digital Manual makes reference to the first two as well...

    I try and respect the original stories as and when I can, to the point of BSing in new context to keep the words intact, but even I can't BS my way out of that mess...

    There's no real reason Classic Sonic to appear in the first place. The Phantom Ruby is apparently a completely different Phantom Ruby, the one in the comic was supposed to be the Ore rather than the Prototype design and Infinite uses a different one. It also means the one in Sonic Mania disappears entirely.

    So, why does Sonic get ejected out into Sonic Forces' timeframe? Where did the Sonic Mania Phantom Ruby go? Assuming Sonic Mania Adventures is the 'true sequel' to Sonic Forces, then the Sonic Mania Phantom Ruby is still unaccounted for. If we consider Sonic Mania Plus' Encore Mode the true sequel, then the Phantom Ruby disappears, then suddenly reappears over Sonic when he gets sent back because ???

    And how does Classic Sonic get sent back in the first place anyway? You could assume it as the Phantom Ruby's destruction with the Death Egg Robot fight, but as I pointed out both seen in that game are completely different Phantom Rubies, so Classic Sonic has no connection to them to prompt such a thing. His Phantom Ruby is AWOL, and if it WAS the one holding him there then there's no reason for him to start disappearing when the other two are gone, since as far as we know it's still intact.

    As for my Phantom Sonic idea, it requires a bit of a wave, but Phantom Sonic forming due to a combination of the area being doused in Phantom Ruby Energy (or Infinite being nearby, as the Ghost Town level establishes if you need it), the scans Robotnik used to copy the Sonic Mania Phantom Ruby and build the Sonic Forces one containing Classic Sonic's mental waves due to being engaged with Classic Sonic when he took them, and the Real Superpower of Friendship from Tails saves time and only really needs to answer one question: how did Phantom Sonic show up? Answer, Classic Sonic's mind in the copy responded to save Tails when he was in distress.

    We do know Phantoms can operate independently (see: Zavok in orbit while Infinite was on Earth, Chaos hunting down Tails independently of Infinite, etc.), so the formation of one independently can be seen as an extension of that, but under extenuating circumstances.

    It also requires a retcon to Robotnik's use of "other dimension", but it needs that now anyway, and I'm trying to play it as meaning from the past (different dimension of time). Tails, fortunately, says "Sonic of another world" in Japanese, which Sonic Rivals 2 gives us a precedent of different time periods being considered different worlds, so...
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2023
  2. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    The Green Hill and Chemical Plant cutscenes aren’t meant to show amnesia, they’re just trying to show that Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 were a long time ago and Sonic and Tails are just starting to catch on to the plot. I don’t know whether that was there from the get-go or it was added as part of Pontac and Graf’s script so I’m not going to point fingers but it’s pretty clear whoever was responsible was not taking into account other games where you go to those locations. And to be fair, at that time those zones hadn’t appeared in any major games until then (I know GHZ-like zones are a dime a dozen but I’m talking about the exact location).

    I think the best way to deal with the time travel issue is to just establish they lost their memories of traveling to the future, Maybe classic Sonic’s came back temporarily when he went to Forces’ time. I don’t know. In the end though, that’s just head canon. It’s really something that can’t be established without more info from Sega, so hand waving it is kind of all you can do.
     
  3. Rafa Stary

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  4. big smile

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    From the Japanese manual story:


    "Daahahahaha... Sonic, you've fallen right into my trap. I've already found out that the Chaos Emeralds are lying somewhere in the area where this race is being held! If they happen to find the Chaos Emeralds during the race, it'll save me the trouble of searching for them."

    Dr. Eggman is acting cocky as usual.

    "When they've collected the Chaos Emeralds, I'll take them all away! No matter how good Sonic is, if I attack when he shows an opening during the race, he won't stand a chance. And this time, I'll be sure to prepare a secret weapon..."
    Dr. Eggman turns around, muttering.
    From the corner of his eye, he saw several cold silhouettes, their eyes glowing eerily in the dim darkness...

    "Heheheh... It was a perfect plan, even for me. Finally, at long last, my long-held dream of world domination shall become a reality! Dahahahaha..."


    So it sounds like he was using Metal and the rest to steal the Chaos Emeralds.
     
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  5. Rafa Stary

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  6. I don’t think so. To me, it’s pretty obviously referring to his creations. The “cold” silhouettes and “eerily” give it away. Sonic and co. are too excitable and “fiery” to be described as “cold.”
     
  7. Rafa Stary

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  8. See this is where the issues crop up repeatedly in this thread: Developer intent is really all we can discuss, yet this thread has repeatedly devolved into "nuh uh my headcanon is more valid" nonsense. (Most of?) the developers aren't working with an intent to create a unified story through every piece of even slightly-related media so there will be retreads and plotholes that arise because of them. The answer is not to pick and choose which bits one personally finds more important but just to accept that there isn't one unified continuity, just notice that each entry will choose what the developers feel relevant for the story they're telling and they may or may not mold prior experiences to fit that story.

    Yes, this makes trying to make everything cohesive difficult, but... we're talking about a game series about a talking anthropomorphic blue hedgehog fighting an egg-shaped machine-controlling evil genius. You've gotta go into each story with a hefty amount of suspension of disbelief anyway.
     
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  9. I also think that referring to the world divide between Modern/Classic and Human/Animal as the intention of the developers is misleading. It was canon, but not intended by the original developers. Yes, this was the official stance of Sega in recent years, but there’s no evidence to suggest the developers at the time of each game had these concepts in mind. It appeared merely to be a post hoc branding effort/hand waving rationalization for the co-existence (or lack thereof) of humans and anthros. The developers of Sonic Adventure, for instance, certainly treated the events of the classic series both as the recent past of the characters and well known among the human citizens. In fact, fan reaction was largely against the division of worlds because it blatantly ran contrary to the original devs’ intention.
     
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Alright, your point?

    I keep seeing people bring up "It's a children's series with a talking blue hedgehog!" as if that justifies terrible story writing and continuity somehow.

    Yeah, and Batman is a series with an insane man dressed up as a bat fighting people dressed as a clown, a scarecrow, etc. Steven Universe is a show about magical sentient space rocks fighting other sentient space rocks and monsters. Mega Man is a series with a blue robot child fighting a mad scientist. Pokémon is a series about children running around catching monsters. Doctor Who is a show about a mad man with a police box travelling through time.

    Similarly ridiculous premises, yet they all have pretty good continuity and decent to great story writing. Sonic the Hedgehog had that once, but everyone's determined to justify the crapshow that it's become with "oh, it's just a series about a blue hedgehog".

    Sonic Forces can barely figure out how many Phantom Rubies there are (three apparently, but the game acts as if there's just one, despite using two according to concept art and the third bringing one of the playable characters into the events).
    Meanwhile, with the magical space rocks, continuity is so tight the goofy kids song in the first episode is foreshadowing the series.

    Sonic Colours: Baldy McNosehair.
    Magical space rocks: grief at the loss of a loved one, domestic abuse, feelings that your existence is a big mistake and that those you love would be better off without you.


    I'm not even asking for that level of continuity, either, I'm asking they think things out rather than throw out confusing messes of plots like Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) and Sonic Forces. And it's not like I'm asking the franchise to go anywhere it hasn't before: Sonic Adventure featured genocide on two fronts, which was a thing in the backstory since Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive).

    Yes, I'm aware this was a retcon, but again, I don't mind retcons when it's beneficial, and I think we can agree that backstory change was beneficial towards to the plot. The only confusing thing stemming from that change is all the bird iconography from the first two games.

    The point being, just because it's a series about a blue hedgehog doesn't give it a pass to shoot it's own continuity. And I'm far from the only one feeling that, I'm just the most outspoken, unless everyone here hates that Flynn started tying the series continuity back together with Sonic Frontiers and I've sorely mistaken all that praise the story got..?

    I'm not saying it's more valid, I'm saying it makes more sense and removes the litany of plotholes introduced with the current stance. I'm fully aware I'm not a developer in Sonic Team, nor a member of the Lore Team, so my preferred interpretation is hardly a canonical claim and in no way valid, but at the same time it's a solution I'm supplying and it's not like they haven't listened to us before, hence the removal of Three Worlds and addressing Tails' very inconsistent characterisation in Sonic Frontiers.

    Another alternative is simply removing it and the plotholes altogether, like Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, but notice how I don't suggest that. To quote a damn good game: Running from the past is a losing game, it never brings you glory.

    There was concept art of Sonic Forces where it notes that, since it's a different world, the text they were using on the shops in the background is something they made up for that world. Plus, Robotnik saying "Sonic's World" in Sonic Colours instead of just "the world".
     
  11. I'll play along for a reply or two but honestly I've avoided engaging with this topic much because of responses like the one I got there. I've got more enjoyable things to do with my time than play the nitpick game with you over and over and over again.

    Anyway, you said that Sonic had a decent continuity and storytelling once, but I ask you when that happened? There were games with loose in-game stories and different regions received different manual stories based on the games at the start. None of it was great, but it was a mildly interesting backdrop for some fun games.

    Sonic Adventure happened and the story got a bit more serious, but still within the confines of "cartoon character story" and as a one-off it was neat to see something Eggman unleashed turn upon him. There was character development for Tails and the game as a whole was a neat soft reboot of the series.

    Sonic Adventure 2 happened and they threw the meager character development of Sonic Adventure 1 out the window for a garbage story. The gameplay was fun so most of us just went "eh, story's shit but playing more Sonic in 3D is a good time."

    Then there was the dark age of Heroes-06, followed by the maligned Pontac and Graff era? I drifted away from the series between Heroes and Generations, but from the multiple complaints I've read over the years there was no good storytelling nor continuity then, either.

    Generations was a fun self-contained adventure then Lost World was weird and Forces had a god-awful story. I can't make an honest comment on Frontiers' story yet as I haven't completed the game, but based on the first island the overall premise feels like bad fanfiction but the Eggman Log things from fishing fill in an entertaining backstory for this new Sage character.

    So yeah, you have a series of video games of varying quality with a fantastical basic plot premise, and there haven't really been any in-depth stories for them that are any good. Trying to tie them all together is a fool's errand at best, but if you enjoyed it I'd shrug my shoulders and say more power to you. Based on the pages and pages and pages in this thread you don't seem to like what the developers are officially doing as it conflicts with the stories you've chosen in your head, so... stop choosing which stories are more important and move on, you know? There are more important things in life than stressing yourself out over this.
     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Please note, I refer to the Japanese continuity for things like this. The US continuity is all over the place (lookin' at you, Princess Sally/Amy Rose in Sonic the Hedgehog CD).

    Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic Adventure, these three built up the plot of the Ancient Civilization with their manuals. It was the same story, that once long ago, the Chaos Emeralds were being used to develop the civilizations, until someone dun goofed and wiped everyone out.

    Notice how they made mention that "people tried to use the stones incorrectly", not "the people of the island" or even "the people", suggesting a different group.
    Of course, the Chaos Emeralds were hidden on Westside Island when they're also somehow on Angel Island, again I'm not asking for perfect continuity and they were probably just trying to work the Chaos Emeralds into the game.

    Then you've got Sonic the Hedgehog 3, which sets up a lot of elements later seen in Sonic Adventure.

    A few things tying into Sonic Adventure:
    "when the island was still part of the continent"
    We later see where Angel Island once rested, the Mystic Ruins near Station Square, which is indeed on the continent.
    "One day, however, a group of elders who wanted to make the energy of the power stone their own accidentally let the energy run wild."
    Which we later see as Pachacamac and several members of the Knuckles Tribe making a claim for the Master Emerald.
    "In an instant, civilization was destroyed and disappeared from history."
    The Echidna are wiped out by Perfect Chaos.

    "That day, he was patrolling the altar of the island as usual.
    It was his mission to protect the seven Chaos Emeralds that control the power of the "pillar" that lies beneath the island."
    He was patrolling the altar of the Chaos Emeralds, but the 'pillar' lies beneath the island. There's our first note of the Altar of Emerald, separate from the Hidden Palace.

    "That big egg is the legendary dragon's..."
    Of course, we know this was supposed to be the final boss of Sonic the Hedgehog 3, but rather than let a good plot thread go they repurposed this into Perfect Chaos.

    And of course, Sonic Adventure wraps up those plot threads, making way for Sonic Adventure 2's myth arc. While you may not like it, the continuity is pretty clear, focusing the mystery of what happened 50 years ago.

    Sonic Adventure 2 had Shadow be unsure of his own memories, since Rouge found a report detailing the Biolizard as Project: Shadow, and it is also noted several capsules were ejected from the ARK. Also tied into Sonic Adventure with Tails getting rewarded for saving everyone in Station Square from getting nuked.

    Sonic Heroes introduced the amnesia subplot, but what people forget is that it isn't just the amnesia in play, but also continuity from Sonic Adventure 2: the fact that no one's still really sure if Shadow is the actual Project: Shadow or some other weapon created by Gerald to destroy the Earth. That's why Rouge isn't telling him his past on meeting, she needs to get it verified.

    Shadow the Hedgehog finishes the subplot by confirming Shadow was, indeed, the outcome of Project: Shadow, and has Shadow decide that he'll focus on his future and leave his past behind. It also answers questions like "why the hell does the peaceful Gerald have a planet busting cannon built into the ARK", turning out that it was designed to take out the Black Comet.

    Sonic Battle furthers this by showing Shadow tracking down another weapon Gerald had, the Gizoid, but instead of destroying it he opts to use the safeguard Gerald had installed.

    Sonic Advance 3 ties into Sonic Battle with the obvious Emerl to Gemerl.

    Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) reiterates Shadow's development from Shadow the Hedgehog, having him refuse Mephiles when he tries the same plot that Black Doom did.

    There's also the underarching plots, the smaller stuff that doesn't really affect the plots, but it's a pretty neat continuity detail.

    In Chaotix, Espio is envious of Knuckles residing on Angel Island, because he's fascinated by the Ancient Civilization of the Echidna.
    Come Sonic the Fighters, and where do you find him?
    [​IMG]

    There's Subspace being an inhabitable place:
    The various Gamma units, where Robotnik keeps building more Gammas, like the E-1000s, the Chaos Gamma unit and the Guard Robos, likely since he never saw E-102 Gamma betraying him, but did see him as highly successful. Rouge even suggests Chaos Gamma might have pieces of Gamma in his construction.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    There was a lot of continuity going on, is what I'm saying. I think I'll save you the headache of me continuing on this, since there's a lot more examples.

    Meanwhile, for darker plots, there is, again, a genocide or xenocide as far back as Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive). You have Knuckles lamenting his lot in life, being stuck on a floating island guarding the Master Emerald due to the actions of his forebears. You had the famous Maria getting shot, after spending her life trapped aboard the ARK and never getting to see Earth. You had a sacrifice, in the form of Tikal sealing herself away with Chaos...

    Man, you really don't want to be a 12-14 year old girl in this universe... er, anyone wanna check in on Amy?

    There's also Sonic and the Black Knight, which has a look into existential dread and the fear of the end.

    Actually, I think that's when the gameplay started to go downhill. It's when they started toward the hallway design we later see in full form for Sonic Forces and started messing up the physics. But this isn't the Gameplay Thread, which is probably why everyone seems to make the mistake that I only have complaints for the story: no, I have lots of complaints, this is just the thread for the story stuff.

    Oh, there was plenty of continuity going on within the Adventure Era, as noted above. From Sonic Adventure to Sonic Advance 3, there were generally ties and continuity with other games. Sonic Advance was pretty much the only standalone, Sonic Advance 2 sniped Cream so that has to go before Sonic Heroes.

    After the chaos that was Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), that was where they started cutting back on continuity significantly, but there were still hints, like Eggmanland being built in Sonic Unleashed, a callback to Sonic Adventure, and Sonic option of agreeing to a date with Amy in the former game getting referenced in Sonic and the Black Knight, as well as a Biolizard reference when fighting the earth dragon if I recall correctly. Dunno why, though, since last I checked one of the major complaints of Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) was the continuity issues of the blue Chaos Emerald's 10 year loop, not the continuity itself...

    Anyway, Pontac and Graff wasn't so much them removing continuity as much as Bane'ing the back of continuity.

    In Sonic Colours, there was the Miles Electric device from Sonic Unleashed and SA-55 became Orbot, so there were still continuity nods, but now, suddenly, Sonic is an alien from another world and Robotnik was invading "Sonic's World", while Iizuka was not helping things with him saying "this is how it's been since Sonic Adventure" when, y'know, we can evidence the contrary.

    Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I was harmless by virtue of having no story, but the website did attempt to snarl things with the claim Sonic and Knuckles' plot in Sonic & Knuckles took place at the same time.

    Sonic Generations was a neat continuity romp, I'll happily give them that.

    Then we get Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II: where we already had the Death Egg II in Sonic the Fighters, and Chaotix explaining Metal Sonic's CPUs were recovered and placed in a replacement chassis for Metal Sonic Kai, now the Death Egg Mk. II exists and Metal Sonic was recovered from the Little Planet. Of course, people can just dismiss Sonic the Fighters and Chaotix as non-canon, the latter evident in Sonic Heroes, but they should have avoided those just to err on the side of caution. If they really wanted it, they could have called it the Death Egg Shell to differentiate it better...

    Sonic Lost World really doesn't have anything connecting it to anything. The only reason we can figure a position is the Miles Electric device and Orbot and Cubot. Remove those two things and that game could go anywhere.

    Sonic Mania, on it's own, is mostly harmless. I say mostly due to the Little Planet revisit and Metal Sonic fight, which further confuses things on what's going on with Metal Sonic after Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 2. It's also confusing on what the Phantom Ruby's power is, due to Word of God being it's warping reality, while the Knuckles Cutscene shows otherwise with the deliberate Ruby Glitching animation.

    Then we have Sonic Forces, which has the litany of issues and contradicting pretty much everything else, but this has already mentioned several times so I won't recap that further.

    All in all, it started mostly harmless then just kinda saw everything get dragged into the rapids...

    Hardly, as noted the Adventure Era does a fair job of the games keeping out of each others way. It's later on when it's a problem.

    I don't like it because the developers are conflicting with the stories themselves. It's really as simple as that.

    Two worlds conflicts with Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 (the newscaster says Sonic has saved the world numerous times, which is a bit difficult if Sonic's only been in the Human World for Sonic Adventure). Thankfully that was done away with. Sonic Forces conflicts with itself and Sonic Generations. And no one's really sure what's going on with Metal Sonic pre-Sonic Adventure any more.

    Is it really that bad to want a little bit of consistency?

    Away from that, something else I noticed:
    "As Knuckle was checking one of the Chaos Emeralds to see if there was anything wrong with it, the Chaos Emerald in front of him glittered and began to vibrate abnormally.

    Knuckle is puzzled by this unprecedented phenomenon.
    The Chaos Emerald began to vibrate more and more intensely.
    Just as the vibrations reached their peak, there was a flash of light with a screech.
    Knuckle's memory was blacked out when he felt his body float away."

    The Chaos Emeralds begin to react before the Death Egg hits Angel Island. The reason that has my interest is because Sonic Adventure has a couple of Echidna note that there's a mysterious barrier blocking them from claiming the Emeralds.

    I wonder if that barrier was around the entirety of what would become Angel Island, since the Knuckles Tribe's land remains as the Mystic Ruins, and the Death Egg breaking through is what the Chaos Emeralds were reacting to...
    But that's pure speculation on my part.

    Also, further along things, Sonic Frontiers has most the Chaos Emeralds locked off by barriers you need keys for...
     
  13. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Yeah, the thread’s been that way for quite a while now… It’s kind of like arguing with a brick wall if we’re being honest. I don’t want to do that, I want find out and discuss what’s currently canon. If the subject is about what was canon in the past then sure, let’s talk about that, but it’s usually not the main subject and gets dredged up and argued about anyway because certain people feel very strongly about their interpretations of it.
     
  14. MykonosFan

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    This was not said to defend the writing, or to say it shouldn't be better. It's said to convey "we're here to take this seriously because we like the worlds and characters, but there are points when we need to step back and remind ourselves it's a marketable franchise with many different hands in the pie over the years. That's why this specific thing won't work."

    I spent a few hours with friends the other month trying to make sense of Sonic Runners in a way that makes sense against the series at large, but at the end of the day we had to go "Yeah, that's really tough to fit in. Oh well! It wasn't meant to be taken this seriously this time." which is, in effect, "Right, this is about a cartoony hedgehog who likes chili dogs." For as much as we enjoy picking over every detail, finding what works / doesn't work, and trying to find ways to make the things that don't work work. At some point you just have to face that things won't. Which is what SoNick was saying in the rest of the quoted post. So I shouldn't need to reiterate that, but to be safe, I have.
     
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  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    There's not much to go off.

    Sonic Origins happens:

    Sonic sees a mad scientist kidnapping animals and goes to stop him. He collects the Chaos Emeralds and they fly off to Westside Island, the seventh one randomly joins them on route because no answer given.

    Sonic pops over to the Little Planet because it's "on the way" if I recall Ian Flynn correctly before heading over to Westside Island. He defeats his metal doppleganger Robotnik has built between Sonic the Hedgehog (Origins) and Sonic the Hedgehog CD (Origins).

    On Westside Island he sees a fox getting bullied and stops the bullies, encourages the fox and cheers Miles on when he sees him flying, then randomly runs into Robotnik right after. Animation's unclear on how Sonic ends up in conflict with Robotnik again in this new canon, presumably he just happens upon Robotnik again.

    Death Egg crashes into Angel Island, Robotnik sees the Master Emerald and decides not to steal it as soon as the Death Egg's repaired when Knuckles warns him off it and convinces Knuckles to fight Sonic, Sonic and Tails are now randomly heading toward Angel Island, again nothing in the animation on why they know where to go for the main game, presumably they followed the reentry path?

    Sonic Prime shows Knuckles introduces himself to Sonic in Hidden Palace Zone.

    The rest of the Classic games take place after. Currently known placements in order are:

    Sonic Spinball
    Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island
    Sonic R
    SEGASonic the Hedgehog


    The rest are unknown, we do know Sonic the Hedgehog (8-Bit) is separate from Sonic the Hedgehog (Origins) now, unknown where the 8-Bit games sit amongst the others, and presumably Sonic Mania takes place at the end of all of this but no word from Ian Flynn yet. Awaiting those plot rewrites, presumably coming with Sonic Origins Plus.

    Currently unknown if Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is still canonical or if it's been ousted due to unfinished plot. Takes place before Sonic Adventure if still canonical, at the very least.

    No word on any other placement post-Classic Era, presumably mainlines are still in order of release. No currently noted placements of the Sonic Advance series, presumably Sonic Advance and Sonic Advance 2 are pre-Sonic Heroes, no note on if post-Sonic Adventure 2 though likely due to SOAP Shoes training mentioned in Tails' 30th Anniversary comic, no currently noted placements for any other game after.

    Sonic Prime is also apparently on the timeline somewhere, but Ian Flynn refuses to say due to spoilers.

    Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW Comics) are also apparently canonical, set post-Sonic Forces, so simple enough.

    So the currently known placements of the new Sonic Timeline stands as:

    Sonic Origins
    Sonic Spinball
    Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island
    Sonic R
    SEGASonic the Hedgehog
    Sonic Adventure
    Sonic Adventure 2
    <Speculative Sonic Advance and Sonic Advance 2 placements>
    Sonic Heroes
    Shadow the Hedgehog
    Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)
    Sonic Unleashed
    Sonic Generations
    Sonic Lost World
    Sonic Forces
    Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW Comics)
    Sonic Frontiers


    Anything I'm missing?
     
  16. Blue Spikeball

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    Define "good continuity", because the early core games often referenced each other and built on previous installments. S3K was a direct sequel to Sonic 2. SA1 was a S3K sequel that greatly expanded on its lore and worldbuilding, and had various references to previous games, like that Japanese-only line about Sonic's adventures in CD and S3K, or Metal and Mecha Sonic's cameos. Even if you think SA2 had "a garbage story" (which, btw, is just your opinion), it still had continuity nods like that mention of Tails saving Station Square, or the many Angel Island references (Artificial Chaos, the emerald altar replica, the Knuckles Tribe Pedestals). And may I ask in what way it squandered Tails' character development?

    You could even find occasional nods in spin-offs, like the Japanese manual of Chaotix referencing S3K, or the manuals of Labyrinth and Tails Skypatrol subtly referencing each other.

    Going into the Dark Age, Heroes had a whatever story, but it had plenty of references to previous games. Omega was a reference to the E-100 series, Shadow's return was a reference to SA2, Metal Sonic's role was a reference to his previous defeats, and there were a lot of throwaway lines referencing old games (even in idle dialogue), some of which didn't even leave Japan. Sonic Battle had a more developed plot that fleshed out the characters' personalities, referenced Omega, and further built on SA2's story, expanding on Shadow's backstory. Advance 3 referenced Battle via Gemerl. Sonic Rush and Riders each got direct sequels that built on their predecessors' stories.

    I'd say the only instances of bad continuity in that era were Shadow's game (if only because of how in-your-face its retcons to Shadow's backstory were), '06 (what with the whole Blaze ordeal) and Rivals (Eggman Nega).
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2023
  17. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I'm posting again my current new-canon-inspired timeline because I couldn't find the original post.

    #0 - completo.png
     
  18. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    Excuse me the potentially silly and futile question...

    Couldn't someone here capable of asking stuff on BumbleKast inquire Ian Flynn about his take on 2 matters?
    1. Assortment of the gameverse continuity and which games he considers canon, whether they're of a mainline or parallel timelines;
    2. Ages of the majorly relevant characters and/or if they've been aging or so. Heck, maybe even if he deems the Classic>Modern aesthetic changes as just that or actual aging xD

    Despite his statements being potentially taken with a grain of salt, it might be better than leaving it hanging for anyone to argue about.
     
  19. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Every game is canon but Chronicles, Pocket Adventure, that popcorn game, the spaceship arcade game, and the mobile games.

    It looks like their official age is gone.
     
  20. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    ...It's hell... A nightmare... The fandom will never reach common ground... -_-

    I know their ages vanished from the Sonic Channel Profiles. Which sucks, IMHO.
    But I specifically requested for Flynn's potential personal take on that, that's all.