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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Childish

    Childish

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    would that mean the *design* was used in mania or that the specific ruby in mania was a prototype? Cause idk why concept art would be retconing story elements.
     
  2. Blue Spikeball

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    It can be confusing due to the lack of in-story explanation, but the Mania PR was a prototype that somehow got there from the Modern dimension/timeline/era/whatever. It's not a retcon since it was never stated to not be a prototype.
     
  3. Pengi

    Pengi

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    It says "Prototype (used in Mania)" right above it.
     
  4. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Does anybody know where did this concept art come from?
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Alright, fair enough. Now why it randomly goes back in time/to another universe, would have been great for Sonic Team to clarify.

    It still doesn't make sense to me for them to make and use this completely new render instead of just sending a 2D image of the Phantom Ruby prototype for them to use instead. But let's leave off this subject.

    Sonic Live Station, apparently.
     
  6. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    The concept art appeared along with art of Infinite on a Sonic Live Station episode. They were introduced by Eitaro Toyoda, who I believe is essentially the story lead for the franchise at the moment. While it’s not staged in the concept art he mentions that you can see the original ore inside the final boss. I don’t have the clip it handy but I can try and find it.

    So here are all the facts when it comes to the Phantom Ruby:
    • The original rough ore appeared in front of Eggman’s base. It was mistakenly drawn as a prototype because Sega never specified what it looked like. This ore doesn’t seem to need any power supply and at first seems hard if not impossible to control, simply showing visions of what the person touching it desires. It is used by Eggman in his Neo Death Egg Robot and gets destroyed along with it.
    • Eggman made prototypes based on the original Ruby. These prototypes were considered failures because they could only record the DNA of the person who triggered it, which I guess means that anyone can use the final ruby? It’s not really specified. It’s unclear how their abilities differ from the final version, as we’ve seen them create illusions, cancel out Infinite’s illusions, and manipulate spacetime. The final model uses that last ability to create null space, but it’s unknown if the prototypes can as well. Egg Reverie seems to be similar, so maybe?
    • One of the prototypes ended up in Mania’s time/dimension/whatever by warping space time. It looks slightly different in Mania but is meant to be the same as the other prototypes. It interferes with the master emerald causing Angel island to fall (this explanation might not be currently canon but was the reason Stealth gave) and reacts to the animals in the Eggrobos sent to retrieve it, creating the Hard Boiled Heavies. It’s unknown how much of Mania is an illusion, but judging from how it warped there and how the HBHs remain transformed, I would say there’s more reason to suggest it was mostly or completely real.
    • The Mania prototype seemingly reacts with the chaos emeralds at the end, opening a portal that sends Sonic to the time/dimension of Forces. When the final Ruby is destroyed, he comes back. If Mania mode is canon then the prototype remains intact, setting off the story events and eventually generating a portal that sucks it any Eggman in. It’s ultimate fate is unknown.
    • The final version of the Phantom Ruby requires a remote power source. No reason or explanation is given for this.
    • In earlier drafts of the script, the Phantom Ruby was a device made by Eggman called the Valtron. It works the same way, the only difference I can recall is that Classic Sonic appears in the Forces dimension because the Valtron’s power is affecting other dimensions. The script is mostly the same otherwise with a few exceptions like a mention of Mephiles, so it seems like a lot of the issues with the Phantom Ruby and how it works are the result of replacing the Valtron at the last minute.

    Whether it makes sense to you (and me) or not, those are the facts until they release more info on it, which I doubt they’re in any hurry to do.
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Pretty much sums up most of the Phantom Ruby.
    "It ended up in the Classic World. No reason or explanation is given."

    So the Sonic Mania Phantom Ruby just kinda disappears between Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces. And Classic Sonic wasn't following the Phantom Ruby, he just ended up randomly entering the events.
     
  8. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    We'll have to wait to see if the lore team will keep Mania's PR as a prototype or change it to the original one.
     
  9. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Again about the rings.

    10:00 - What is the use/purpose of rings in canon? I know in the games they can act as a one-more-hit buffer, but I have always been unclear on if that is a literal property that carries over to the world of Sonic outside of gameplay.

    Presently it has no canon usage. It is just a gameplay element.
     
  10. BlackHole

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    So Sonic Rivals is once more in the state of canon known as ???, since that does present a canon example of rings in the plot.
     
  11. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    33:48 You say rings are just a gameplay mechanic but since rings are referenced in sonic rivals 2 When knuckles needs to collect them to fuel his emerald detector and silver and espio needs to gather rings to restore silvers powers So they have to be canon unless sega says sonic rivals 2 is non canon Did they say it’s non canon please tell me they did not.
     
  12. Rafa Stary

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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2023
  13. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    lol, Ian sounds so tired when he answers that question.

    Anyway, I would think any mentions of rings in dialogue are non-canon and are there just to orient the player. Just like any mentions of lives, Red Star Rings, gamepad buttons or the camera. Lines like that are common in games.

    Well, there is Tails' "Where does Sonic store all his rings?" line from Generations, but that's probably just Pontac's oh-so-clever meta humor :V
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2023
  14. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    That’s how I always interpreted it. I actually didn’t think other people considered those parts hard-canon until I started reading this thread, lol
     
  15. BlackHole

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    It's not in the Japanese, so I tend to ignore that one.

    Classic Tails actually asks why on Earth Modern Tails would put legs on the Tornado.

    Except they're mentioned in cutscenes, which is pretty much the canon.

    As Rafa Story pointed out, Tails was at Robotnik's amusement part in Shadow the Hedgehog to retrieve the rings from it. Sonic Rivals 2 has two instances of it being a story element specifically, not in-game dialogue.
     
  16. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    The "rings are non canon" is the new "Sonic lives in two worlds" source of rage.
     
  17. Rafa Stary

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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2023
  18. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Please define "they", because Sonic Team, the devs and Sega of Japan didn't have much of a hand in most of the aforementioned adaptations. The were licensed works and the producers of the early cartoons/comics answered mainly to Sega of America, occasionally doing things the devs didn't approve of. Until the '10s the games were treated as having a single world, even when Sonic X (which was more closely supervised by Sonic Team) was airing.
     
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  19. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2023
  20. BlackHole

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    More me being incredibly tired due a long, long, long battle with insomnia and genuinely misreading your name. Sorry 'bout that.

    She stems from an AI, so I don't consider her Human, but an Elf. An Electronic Life Form. But let's not get into the legal status of a sentient AIs.