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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Huh.
    I would argue that this doesn't count, because Infinite uses a man-made copy of the Phantom Ruby, or whatever that is, and not the real one. So he's just creating clones of copies, not clones of the Phantom Ruby itself.

    But I don't even know if Mania's Phantom Ruby is the real one or a prototype. This thing got so confusing after people found that concept art.

    Not that I know of, no.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The manmade copy thing is something I made up to try and cover the massive gaping plothole, just a heads up.
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Wait, what?
    Isn't Infinite's Phantom Ruby created by Eggman?
     
  4. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It is, I meant it being a copy. Sonic Forces treats it as just the Phantom Ruby.
     
  5. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    But it's not, since the real one was inside the Death Egg Robot according to Eggman (I might me misremembering).
     
  6. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Yeah, the original Phantom Ruby ore that appeared outside of Eggman’s base was then used to develop prototypes, one of which somehow got teleported through space time to the classic timeline past and sets off the events of Mania. The final version of the Ruby is then implanted in Infinite, and the original version is inside the final boss.
    There really doesn’t seem to be much of a difference between the final and original outside of the latter not needing a remote power supply (isn’t that better though?) but hey, that’s just how Forces rolls. On that subject, I wonder if they’ll ever explain how/why the entire cast forgot about the Phantom Ruby from Mania. I hate having that plot hole open but I can’t really think of any explanation I’d actually be satisfied with either.

    As for the discrepancy between the intros for Sonic+Tails and Knuckles in Mania, I see it kind of like the cutscene differences in Sonic Adventure. You’re watching your character’s own account of what happened to them, and the “objective” version is probably something in the middle. …Or just Sonic’s version sinc he’s the default character.
     
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  7. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    You do understand you just shot yourself on the foot with that example, right?
    MK11 did just what I think ST should've done by now, confirm EVERYTHING's canon...but through parallel realities/timelimes.
    And they did so AFTER rebooting the whole original timeline/continuity in a way that allowed them to simplify past plotholes and lore conundrums.
    NRS didn't make everything exist in ONE single timeline, they made the MK multiverse have a way to work out everything.
    When dealing with spacetime/timeline/continuity matters, it's usually better to not have tunnel vision and claim everything exists on a vacuum, in a streamlined way.
    So my opinion sticks, MK is a kind of example ST could take notes of for the Sonic franchise ^^"
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
  8. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    He just calls it "the Phantom Ruby". No "original ore" or anything, as far as the script seems to be concerned there was only the one final design and it's now in the Death Egg Robot. with Tails expressing worry about it's power supply no longer being a weakness.

    "I've incorporated the Phantom Ruby into this Death Egg Robot!"
    "No way...! If it's weakness in the energy supply is gone, then the Phantom Ruby is now a perfect existence."

    Something I never got: if power supply was an issue, why did Robotnik never claim the Chaos Emeralds or Master Emerald? The latter could've been an easy way to bring Knuckles in...

    No? The entire game is about timelines colliding and the fact an Elder God has been resetting Time over and over. It all happened, it just got reset. I mean, if resetting time removes it from continuity entirely, then don't check out the game's ending...
     
  9. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Saw it all, doesn't change my stance ^^"
     
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Then you think the entirety of Mortal Kombat X and all but the ending of Mortal Kombat 11 are non-canon as well?
     
  11. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    Nope, I simply treat that trilogy as a reboot and another continuity. Just as canon as everything else.
    Please reread EVERYTHING of what I posted here a few hours ago. Not gonna repeat myself.
     
  12. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    What is weird is that Sonic (+ Tails) and Knuckles go to the same levels and fight the same bosses at the same time. In SA1 the differences in the cutscenes work because the characters indeed are there together, but that doesn't happen in Mania.
    I would say that all the Knuckles campaign is an illusion, all the Encore Mode is an illusion, and most (but not all) of the levels in Sonic campaign are an illusion as well.

    God this is so confusing.

    If the Death Egg Robot's Phantom Ruby and Infinite's Phantom Ruby are the same, how did it stop needing a power supply?

    And how did the prototype go back to Mania if there was no power supply anymore?
     
  13. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2023
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Welcome to the party! This is why I advocate my explanation of it being a copy of the "original" one in Sonic Mania, because it removes so many questions.

    How did the Prototype go back at all, since it appears to be destroyed when they rammed through it and the Death Egg Robot and there's red shards pouring out the front and back?

    I would only include the Angel Island opening as non-illusionary, the rest, including the Angel Island levels, are illusions.
     
  15. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Where did that concept art with the 3 Phantom Rubies come from? I never knew the source.

    At least the new levels should be real.
     
  16. I would have much preferred if they stuck to the team’s OG story about the HBH being leftover Egg Robos that went out on their own. Trying to force a tie-in is always hell on continuity.

    Though I imagine that wouldn’t have worked too well with the expanded scope (I.e. the returning levels). I’m not sure how they’d be able to make them progress naturally from one to the other.
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    No idea, probably a stream.

    Nah, I view them especially as Phantoms.

    The way I see it, the Phantom Ruby first interacts with Sonic, and 'creates' Green Hill Zone.
    When Robotnik gets it, it interacts with him, 'creating' his version of the world. You start in his Chemical Plant Zone, then go to his Recording Studio, then to his Flying Battery, then to his Newspaper Pressing Plant, etcetc. It's all an Illusionary World where he reigns and has control over the land, the media, and even Angel Island with his technology encroaching in the background of the Hidden Palace.

    At least, that's my interpretation of things.
     
  18. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I still like this:

     
  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    But then they get attacked by the Hard-Boiled Heavies in several stages, suggesting a continuing illusion. The Heavy Magician attacks them mid-flight in Mirage Saloon, for instance.

    Nah, I view it all as an illusion bar that opening. It's too Robotnik-dominated, even Mirage Saloon is full of those EG Guns and Robotnik's driving a train with his face on in Act One.
     
  20. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    But wasn't it stated that for some whatever reason the HBH transformation were permanent?