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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    I'd readily accept such multimedia unison approach to the franchise if this weren't a long-running game series with many episodic events, interconnectable or not.
    I don't wanna treat Sonic as a One Piece or Detective Conan or Pokémon anime where we have years of accumulated events but the characters don't seem to age.
    Which to me hints at copious amounts of story padding that muddles what may be truly considered canon or not. That's been irking me to hell and back for years.
     
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Then I refuse further discussion until you've finished the game so I do not spoil anything for you.

    Please enjoy the game and let me know when you're done so I can continue.
     
  3. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    It sounds to me like they're treating the non-game media (aside from the movies) like the old Star Wars Expanded Universe. The adaptations were based and expanded on the films' universe, but the main canon wasn't beholden to them, so it ignored (and occasionally contradicted) them. That's a relatively common approach for film franchises.
     
  4. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    This approach I can work with.

    I don't mind characters being brought over, as noted that's how we've gotten Amy and Charmy, and I think Tangle could make a cool character in gameplay, maybe like how the Werehog should've been (I think the Werehog should've been more like Batman in Batman: Arkham Asylum (rest in peace, Kevin Conroy) and Spider-Man in Spider-Man (PS4), weaving around opponents but using his range to punch and grab, using his arms to swing, etc), but merging continuities will be an absolute nightmare.

    I recall having an argument about Robotnik's parental feelings for Belle the Tinkerer, and here we are with Sage fulfilling the role for Robotnik as Belle did for Mr. Tinker. I would have expected Robotnik to mention her in his Eggman Logs, that this isn't the first time he's built a 'child', but...

    But them acting as supplementary canon that can be dropped later should the need arise, such as the inevitable retirement of Ian Flynn and different writers moving aboard with different ideas for canon that will eventually cause continuity drift, I'm perfectly fine with.
     
  6. Starduster

    Starduster

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    That's, pretty much how a lot of things are with the franchise now, anyway. There's no guarantee the things that are canon now will be canon in 20, 10 or even 5 years' time, but I don't think that delegitimises anything that is canon now (not that I'm suggesting you're saying that). I expect this is how the relationship between the comics and games will function because it's practical and keep things accessible to more casual fans, but I expect that, if Tangle does appear in the flesh in future, she won't be treated as anything other than one and the same as the Tangle we already know and love from IDW. These comics are already entirely compatible with the games, there's little reason to bother going to the lengths of defining IDW as a separate universe. I'll concede there's a possibility that SEGA comes out and says that this is a different Tangle (which I will be baffled by for reasons stated above) and a stronger possibility that the Metal Virus isn't brought up (though if any non-character thing from the comics is going to be referenced, it'll surely be this - I don't think anything else has come close to the impact and magnitude those events have had), but I suspect that the reason we're only hearing about Tangle at the moment (at least as far as I know, turns out triggering these voice lines is like finding a needle in a haystack) is because there's a desire to front load a whole bunch of comic references all at once.

    It's also worth pointing out some other emissions: As I mentioned prior, Gmerl isn't mentioned, along with Chip, Marine, Wave, Jet, Gamma, Fang, Bark and Bean and the Chaotix (and the storybook characters). A couple of these are from games referenced in other ways, some probably aren't as well known as the IDW book, but, while Frontiers is definitely reference heavy, even as far as the games go, it doesn't incorporate everything. Most surprisingly of all is that Mania isn't referenced (though I suspect this could be that the Classic/Modern timeline split was reneged upon quite recently, so it was too late to reflect this in the game).

    Eggman has always been insistent that Tinker is not him. I can very much see a case for "He's still an important part of IDW's lore so it's odd he wasn't referenced", and I was certainly surprised that he wasn't, but I don't think it's illogical either. Besides his views on the Tinker "persona", he's been little but dismissive of Belle in his interactions with her. Furthermore, there's an even more obvious reference that could've been made: Professor Gerald Robotnik. Not only did Gerald create life the old fashioned way (okay maybe not that "old fashioned way") in Shadow, which is relevant to Eggman's derision of such a process, Eggman absolutely idolises Gerald, yet he's not mentioned in any of the Egg Logs! Frontiers is definitely lacking some pertinent references here and there.

    Damn, this is how I find out. Absolutely incredible actor, godspeed to him.
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Yeah, there's something I'd say regarding this specifically, but as you've not completed it I'm not going to further there.

    Belle's the one who is insistent Robotnik isn't Mr. Tinker: Robotnik acknowledges he was Mr. Tinker, but only because of the amnesia. For instance, when he infests Windmill Village, he announces "It is I-your beloved Mr. Tinker!" and otherwise just says he wasn't in the right state of mind before Starline helped him.

    His stance is more:
    "You were nice as Mr. Tinker!"
    "Yeah, so?"

    Yeah...
     
  8. Overlord

    Overlord

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    For what it's worth, I agree with BlackHole - Tangle here is almost certainly not the IDW Tangle, she's an imported character and is just the games universe's version of her. Exact same deal with Sticks, she will be the mainline canon's version, not the Boom universe. This game doesn't make IDW canon, it makes Tangle a character that exists in the games universe. I'd say the same thing if by some miracle Tekno and Shortfuse showed up in a game.
     
  9. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Sorry, forgot to mention I'm done with the game now. Interested to see how that relates to this quote in particular though.

    IDW is an entirely separate beast though. Sonic the Comic was created in the formative years of Sonic with next to no input from SEGA and it went wildly off the rails extremely quickly. Evil Super Sonic? Whatever the fuck their version of Chaos was? Shadow being some kind of cyber space copy? You can't have Tekno and Shortfuse come into the games and say that StC is canon because there's a mountain of contradictions and the two continuities don't fit together as a result. The same is true of Boom. Sure, it had a lot more involvement from SEGA but was an alternate universe from the get go, allegedly with the aim of giving the West a Sonic more tailored to them...or something. The point is, there was never any doubt that was a separate continuity, but that's over now and SEGA has seen fit to salvage the one defining character from that continuity, we just haven't seen her reintroduction yet...or anything, really, until this name drop in Frontiers (unless it's going to be retconned that the Sticks in the Mario and Sonic games was the mainline one this whole time). Meanwhile, SEGA has been heavily involved with IDW from the get-go. Takashi Iizuka himself has been in pitch meetings for arcs. I'm not going to pretend that they were always planned to be canon because I don't believe that's the case, but nowadays Ian Flynn has said on multiple occasions that Modern Sonic and IDW Sonic are the same thing, that the Classic Sonic stuff being put out by IDW is canon to that era (which we now know is the past once more) and Mike Cisneros has just said that the FCBD2022 issue is the prequel to the prequel of Sonic Frontiers. Contradictions between the two media are minor at most, so there's no need to redefine Tangle as a "mainline" character when she already is one.
     
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The game has Sonic become slowly corrupted as he tries desperately to save his friends. It's pretty much his Metal Virus story, and the corruption looks rather like the Metal Virus at times, which I'm honestly surprised never came up.

    [​IMG]

    Like, if IDW is the same universe, this is the second in a short span of time where he's very nearly been done in by something corrupting him. I would have at least thought that would warrant a comment about this becoming a trend...
     
  11. Impish

    Impish

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    So this twitter thread from the Sonic Team Social Media Manager has shed some light on the Associate Lore Manager role that was discussed here earlier.
    Interests me as Im a Project Manager looking for a new and interesting gig, might interest y'all for the comment about making all the stories more "connected".
     
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  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Can I be the secret imp whispering lore into your ear? :V
     
  13. Impish

    Impish

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    Doubt they'd want to help me get the visa and relocate for the States-based gig, tbh:eng99:
     
  14. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    As someone said here before, I think the one landing that job should be a fan, but a more general one, not a hardcore one.
    Why's that? Because said kinds of fans may be more open to how to manage the overall lore and continuity than hardcores.
    Some people here, with more clear and stubborn views on the franchise's continuity might undermine it all rather than help.
     
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  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    As I've said several times, I'm fine with changes and retcons if the change is good and makes sense.

    Changing the story of Sonic the Hedgehog 3 to remove the Angel Island Chaos Emeralds? Fine, makes sense, they streamlined it to seven so it doesn't make sense with Sonic have them at the start. That's a good, streamlined change. I've figured out that plothole otherwise, but that's because I enjoy the mental exercises.

    Changing the story so Robotnik knows where the Master Emerald is from the start, removing any reason for him digging around or constructing giant thrusters when the Master Emerald alone would suffice? That makes no sense and shouldn't have been done.
     
  16. Levi Church

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    No Jet is mentioned in Frontiers.
     
  17. Epsilonsama

    Epsilonsama

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    Babylonians were mentioned.

    If you have Managerial experience put your name in the bucket. That being said from the Job description it seems that this is more of a middle management position that works for the Lore Team or w/e that means and you are not in charge of the Lore itself but more of Managing the people that work for the Lore team.
     
  18. Levi Church

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    Yes, both were.
     
  19. Epsilonsama

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    Wait are those voice samples used in the game? I know some of em are used but don't think the + - Jet   one is used.
     
  20. Levi Church

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    Yeah I don't know what lines are used or unused anymore. I was just reading a Twitter thread arguing about the umbrella line.