The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    19 vote(s)
    27.5%
  2. I hate it

    25 vote(s)
    36.2%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    8 vote(s)
    11.6%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    17 vote(s)
    24.6%
  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    But Mobius never came up? Wouldn't they have had to run the manual by him and have it approved?
    I still find it curious, but the lack of English is the most likely factor in regards to it.

    EDIT: Didn't see this one:
    If it's so easy, why not use one to simply reach the ARK, instead of a rocket? Or locate one to jump back home during Sonic Rush Adventure?
     
  2. big smile

    big smile

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    There's actually a print interview where he uses the word Mobius, but it seems oddly worded, so the common wisdom is that the translator took liberties.
    Back in those days, Sonic Team didn’t approve everything like they do now, so they probably wouldn't have shown it to him.

    Also, Mobius took a while to show up in the manuals. The merch was using it first.
     
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  3. BlackHole

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    Ah, okay, that's fair. Thank you for the information.
     
  4. big smile

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    It's a bit like you can fly from UK to Los Angeles easy enough. But then if you want to go to Disney Land, you need to take a transport from the LA airport: the plane won't fly direct to Disney land.

    So in the same way, the gate rings let you go between worlds, but once in that world, you need to use it's transport to get around.

    Rush Adventure was set in a different dimension which didn’t seem to be a part of the "Sonic World"/"Earth" network and so probably didn’t have access to the ring system. (Just like you can't use the London-LAX flight to go to Wales, as Wales is on a different flight network.

    It's dumb and there's a lot of fan theorizing involved, so they should explain it better. And I think it telling that Runners went out of its way to clean up all the continuity issues, but ignored this one, so I think Sonic Team don’t want to explain it.
     
  5. BlackHole

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    But the thing is, they're talking about Dimensional Travel with theoretics, as if this is a new concept:
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    Apparently there's a dimensional barrier to contend with. Tails says the machine should work when using the Chaos Emeralds power.

    There's nothing about them dimension skipping before this point, only that Blaze has. I'll have to track down where Sonic says the Sol Emeralds can allow dimensional hopping, I don't recall it anywhere in Sonic Rush, so it must be in Sonic Rush Adventure.

    Did it? I never played it: I don't like digital only games. I barely made a pass for Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and Sonic Mania, and even then dropped the digital version when the physical Sonic Mania Plus came out. Do you know where I can find a list of such details?
     
  6. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    I don't get why Mobius keeps showing up in these conversations. That's stuff for side media, not the games. When I watched AoSth in the 90's and heard that name, I thought: "This silly cartoon got a silly name for its own world. That's good, so no one messes the setting of the games with the one here." Then SatAM came, and I thought: "A serious sequel of the previous cartoon, that's probably why they kept Mobius in. Still good, uncle Chuck and Snively would never fit in the games." Well, AFAIK, no Sonic comic came out here, so I never knew Archie kept the SatAM setting, but, while Mobius may be important there, those comics still looked very little like the games, so them being the opposite of canon should be evident. Mobius Sonic is a different canon, not a resource to establish a canon for the games.

    Now, a bit more on topic: the real issue here is retcons for Sonic games are not results of plot decisions, are results of corporate decisions. Naka wanted to take full control of the franchise after the US/Japan thing of most of the 90's so they set a canon where things would be as SA1 stated, no matter what it previously was like. Then the writer of SA2 came, and he decided to do his own thing, no matter what the previous stuff was like, and so on. Plot writing only happens for specific games, and references to previous stuff happen because it's a series of games, but, beyond that point, what we get is what the company, the team or the guy that makes the decisions about plot and continuity thinks is better for them, not for the franchise. You talk about 2, or three, or five worlds, but I could say there's seventeen, or thirtyone, and I'd probably be closer to the real number of actual Sonic worlds depicted.
     
  7. Pengi

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    Is there any other Sonic product that Sonic Team has been involved with that has explained how the two worlds setting works, and how Sonic Adventure could be possible?

    Why get snarky/angry about something that you know isn't going to happen?

    It's not "likely". It's neither likely nor unlikely. It's completely unknown how long Amy had been living in Station Square. All we're told is that she has an apartment in Station Square and that she misses her adventures with Sonic. Sonic's absence has no bearing on Amy's living situation.

    I think Iizuka is treating Classic Sonic as a separate universe, rather than a divergent timeline.

    The implication here is that Mighty and the other Classic characters (Ray, Fang etc.) simply do not exist in Modern Sonic's universe.

    Of course, we have been shown that events similar to Sonic 1, CD, 2 and 3 & Knuckles have happened in Modern Sonic's universe.

    Separate universes, rather than divergent timelines, explains away a few things like why Amy was 8 in Sonic CD and 12 from Sonic Adventure onwards, why Vector/Espio/Charmy have contradictory character profiles between Chaotix and Sonic Heroes.

    Unless he's been told that directly, I think he might be getting the wrong end of the stick. It seems like a retcon that came into play some time before Sonic Colours.

    This whole thing seems to be a remnant from Sonic Spinball's Japanese localisation. In America, Mobius was the name of Sonic's planet, so the American Spinball manual mentioned "Planet Mobius" nonchalantly. When Sega of Japan got the American Sonic Spinball manual and story to localise, there's a good chance they didn't have the context for what Mobius was in America. They've just got story text saying that the game takes place on somewhere called "Planet Mobius". So the Japanese Sonic Spinball manual ended up treating Planet Mobius as a new place that Eggman suddenly invaded and conquered.

    "This is planet Mobius, the star of peace... However, due to the evil genius scientist Doctor Eggman's sudden invasion, Mobius was quickly conquered and is now in a state of panic! Eggman caught every single one of the inhabitants who were running about trying to escape, and remodeled them into monsters that do as he says."

    By today’s rules though, it might be that Planet Mobius only exists in Classic Sonic’s universe, if at all.

    A secret giant Ring that connects Sonic's world to the human world isn't necessarily capable of travelling to Blaze's world. Even if such a thing did exist, Sonic would have no knowledge of where to find one on Blaze's world.
     
  8. BlackHole

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    Two reasons:
    1. It's an example of the Two Worlds Scenario that they could have used to springboard the alleged Two Worlds Scenario the games after Sonic Colours present, as there was the internal document 'Sonic the Hedgehog Bible' that SEGA of America wrote detailing Mobius and the like for the Western world.
    2. It's just a name some of us use so we don't have to keep typing Sonic's World over and over, since that was Sonic's World at one point for our side of things.

    Also, what's going on with the site again? It crashed five times while I was writing the above.
     
  9. BlackHole

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    Yes: the actual games could have covered it, but they didn't. Even a footnote in the manuals would have sufficed.
    I snark a lot.
    As I said, I merely used it since she goes straight into reminiscing about her adventures, not something like how where she used to live was more exotic or anything like that.

    Actually, for all we know she's always lived in Station Square. So eh, let's agree to just drop that detail, since we've got nothing to work with in regard to it beyond her living in an apartment downtown by the time of Sonic Adventure.
    Or why Sonic is 18, but you wouldn't know it by looking at him.
    Considering he has Tails, who's building a machine just to break through the dimensional barrier, I think the fox would be able to build a machine to see if one exists: it should've been the first idea out of their heads if such a thing did exist in their world.

    Also, a giant ring capable of transporting a giant fleet of battleships and aircraft carriers from one world to another is probably not going to go unmentioned by the cast... Especially since they're worrying about the impact the dimensional breach is going to have on their two worlds: what the hell's going to happen to Earth if Sonic's World suddenly corrupts?
     
  10. big smile

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    I can't see any of the images you posted. But as mentioned previously Blaze's dimension probably doesn't work with the Earth-Sonic's world ring hopping network.

    It explained why Knuckles leaves the ME to go on adventures, why the Wisps are still around and fleshed out the animal friends and why Sonic doesn't always recognize people he has seen before. Confusingly it also placed the storybook games as both in another universe and as part of the main dimension. I posted incomplete story summaries here.
     
  11. Xiao Hayes

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    I get it when Mobius is used as a shorthand or example, but there's people using it as strong canon reference. SoA may have used it, but never trascended to games until Spinball, and that was the only time, a side game unrelated to the franchise creators. JP stuff has preference (except for Robotnik, Eggman sounds stupid as a supervillain nickname).
     
  12. BlackHole

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    Indeed, that's the point. SEGA of America had an official, in-their-bible Sonic's World to work with: they'd already gave our side a second world that they could have used with absolutely no issue, while SEGA of Japan could have quietly introduced Sonic's World on their side. Instead, ew got nothing but evidence that everything had happened on Earth: Amy returns with an Earth home, NPCs talk about past adventures, they literally ripped the Sonic's World idea out of Western Canon. And are now trying to reintroduce it.

    Basically they're having to build a special machine to get them home, and it's clear through Blaze questioning if it's possible to dimension hop with the Sol Emeralds if they can with the Chaos Emeralds, that either Sonic never told her they can or, since they don't answer in the affirmative that the Chaos Emeralds can and have done so, they've not been the reason the cast can jump between worlds.

    I'll have a look, but it sounds like more canon kerfuffles with a Sonic Team that don't know how to be consistent any more.
     
  13. big smile

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    It sounds like they use gate rings to jump between earth and Sonic's world and not Emeralds.

    The story seems very simplistic at first, but as I continued to play it, I loved it. It's divided into 52 or so episodes with special episodes. It's probably the closest to an in continuity Sonic Team TV show. Easily one of the best side games they have ever made.
     
  14. BlackHole

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    Again, a Gate Ring big enough to transport an entire military fleet is something that I'm fairly certain wouldn't go unaddressed. Even if it were just an aircraft carrier, those things are big.

    Hm, we'll see. I do like the explanation that Knuckles hides the Master Emerald in various temples, and it makes sense with Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, even if that game is no longer canon to the Modern Era: I could see Knuckles hiding the Master Emerald in Hidden Palace when the Death Egg hits. Then again, this is 2015, perhaps that split hadn't been implemented yet.
     
  15. big smile

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    Well, the whole Gate Ring has gone unaddressed so....

    Plus Angel Island must be able to move through the ring, and that Island is bigger than the Egg Carrier, so a military fleet doesn't seem too much of a stretch, especially if the fleet went in one at a time.
     
  16. BlackHole

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    Ah yes, Angel Island, an entire island in the sky, above the cloudline, that I doubt would drop just to enter it. So I'm going to doubt the existence of this giant ring on the grounds the thing must be massive and stretch into the sky from the ocean, unless the G.U.N. Aircraft Carrier and Battleship entourage can fly.

    (That's why I said just the Aircraft Carrier, actually. That's the biggest of the fleet, so I'd use that for the "minimum size" that could fit through. But considering Angel Island is also doing this line-dance, this thing must be visible for miles.)

    All-in-all, I just don't see how a Two World Scenario can fit into the Adventure-established Earth. Well, I can, but it'd be one hell of a continuity heavy story and involve a plot...
     
  17. Powpuck

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    Took him a while to figure out sports tape, huh.
     
  18. big smile

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    Sonic and Shadow use Chaos Control to teleport the massive Space Colony Ark (I think, I haven't played SA2 in years), even though they are nowhere as big as the Ark. And the Chaos Emeralds are only hand-sized and yet can teleport a whole person.

    Perhaps these 'gate rings' work in the same way. They don’t have to be massive, but as something gets close, they trigger a teleporting effect that can warp an Island or Air Fleet.
     
  19. BlackHole

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    They do, but it produces a ball of light that engulf the ARK before it does so. It's also an active effect: the Chaos Emeralds aren't exactly warping things all over the place, only when Chaos Control is invoked. So to apply that same logic, the Ring would have to be activated to transport something and within a certain range. Again, I don't see Angel Island dipping down to get close to it in order to go over to Earth.
     
  20. Pengi

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    When The KKM mentioned it earlier, they were alluding to a 4chan post from 25 June 2015.

    Take with a grain of salt, obviously, but it's consistent with some stuff that was mentioned here at a later date. "I can think of one particular hidden fact that may anger people regarding a certain planet..."