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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Yeah, we're just discussing Chaos' involvement in guarding the Master Emerald when he's away.
     
  2. Starduster

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    Given the nature of Sky Sanctuary and especially its aesthetic in the modern era (incidental as it may be) and now the revelation that it holds at least one cyber space portal, I wonder if it was originally a construction of the Ancients that was appropriated by one echidna tribe or another. Games since Generations have given it all these Tron lines, fitting the digital aesthetic, and the teleporters are pretty much a condensed version of the cyber space gates.
     
  3. Blue Spikeball

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    I guess it's possible that Chaos kept showing up whenever the world is in danger after Battle; only difference being that now stays with the Master Emerald to protect it rather than dealing with the threat directly. So whenever Chaos shows up, Knuckles takes it as a sign that the world is in danger and leaves to deal with the crisis while Chaos fills in for guardian.

    Would explain why Chaos wasn't seen again after Battle. After he showed up in that game, he and Knuckles struck a deal to deal with world threats together like that. It would also make Knuckles' unexplained trips out of Angel Island less random.

    Agreed. I think Knuckles was at his most compelling in his Dreamcast characterization as a tough, no-nonsense loner and devoted guardian who nevertheless had a nicer side and secretly envied Sonic's freedom. Though if Chaos only shows up when the world is in danger, it doesn't contradict that. He'd still be alone on the island most of the time aside from the small animals and Chao as stated in Divergence.

    It makes sense that Sky Sanctuary and Hidden Palace weren't built by Knuckles' ancestors, considering that the Knuckles Clan we saw in SA1 didn't have advanced technology, and their architecture was completely different.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
  4. Plorpus

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    Chaos and Tikal evidently still have some sort of presence, but I don’t think there’s any implication in the short that they guard the emerald when Knuckles is away. I don’t think it’s impossible or anything and I do get the appeal, but it would kind of take away from the weight of Knuckles’ duty as the sole Master Emerald guardian.
     
  5. Pengi

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    Knuckles' ancestors didn't have advanced technology during Tikal's time, but they had 3000 years on Angel Island since then.
     
  6. BlackHole

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    It's the fact Knuckles only leaves to explore when Tikal arrives, when literally rain or shine he was stood there guarding it otherwise.
     
  7. Starduster

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    Or it may not even be that they guard the Master Emerald so much as they try to interact with Knuckles to stave off the loneliness however they can. Tikal leads Knuckles away from the Master Emerald rather than taking his place at it, so perhaps she sensed his doldrums and pushed him to go and explore.

    Why she doesn’t manifest in corporeal form (within universe rather than the practical explanation of not being relevant to the immediate plot of the short) raises its own questions, however.
     
  8. BlackHole

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    Which leaves the Master Emerald unguarded for certain bats and scientists to sneak up on and take. Chaos is also implied to be right there as well, since the water responds to Tikal passing, so could at the very least be watching it.

    But I do see your point of view on it. It's a strange thing, Knuckles could just leave the Master Emerald with the immortal "God of Destruction" and go live a life on the surface, but remains the acting Guardian away from everyone.

    I can headcanon it, but I'll put that over in the Headcanon thread if you want speculation there.
     
  9. Starduster

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    I mean I’m partial to the idea of Chaos acting as an interim guardian myself, just pondering on what’s presented. There’s a lot of ambiguity in what’s really happening, so I do wonder what the official explanation is that they’re working with.
     
  10. Xiao Hayes

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    I don't think Knuckles would leave his role forever even if a permanent substitute was available. having someone elso to back him up on occasion is reasonable, but it's his duty and his destiny, and he'll honour that no matter what happens.
     
  11. BlackHole

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    Well, what we have is:
    • Sonic Battle establishes that Knuckles has seen Chaos frequently enough to pick up on the pattern that he appears when there's a crisis going on. Either that, or Tikal told him since we now know she's also still around, but that would still require a prior interaction since she doesn't tell him during those events.
    • Sonic Forces: Stress Test confirmed further interactions, as Knuckles isn't alarmed by Chaos' appearance, calling him harmless despite the last two seen interactions involving Chaos wiping out a city and fighting a seven Chaos Emerald empowered superweapon. Similarly, the fact he's not alarmed by his presence at all suggests he's stopped just appearing during times of crisis, since otherwise he would consider Silver's warning a whole lot more valid since that would mean there's a crisis afoot.
    On the other hand...
    • I don't think Chaos would have allowed Metal Sonic to go near the Master Emerald during the first arcs of Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW), and didn't assist during the Metal Virus arc even when the zombots were attacking Knuckles, and I would expect Chaos, being a being of water and thus not able to be infected like Metal Sonic and E-123 Omega, would have been highly beneficial in stopping them.
    A potential counterpoint for his lack of assistance is that his water is considered 'biological', since he doesn't seem to just draw water from somewhere else to replace his tail and Robotnik has to track down Froggy for it, and he figured a liquid being made of Metal Virus would probably do more harm than good so stayed out of it, but that's pure speculation on my part. Similarly, there might have been a fight between Metal Sonic and Chaos off-screen, which is so much missed potential for a fight between liquid and liquid metal, but I digress...

    This is just factoring the Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW) in case a continuity fusion occurs.

    The Sonic Forces comics were written by Sonic Team, so while I'd ignore them myself due to the Phantom Ruby Continuity Issues, the intention there shows that Chaos is still an active entity...
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
  12. Starduster

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    To be fair, Chaos may have foreseen the same issue the heroes did with having Burning Blaze fight Neo Metal, that being Metal’s ability to copy bio data. If Neo Metal had gotten his hands on Chaos’ bio data, at the very least it would’ve had the same results as Shadow’s bio data had, allowing him to transform into Master Overlord. In worse cases, he may have even been granted access to the huge mass of Perfect Chaos (assuming Perfect Chaos is only its own mass and not drawing on existing bodies of water).

    At any rate, I think there are issues with either explanation that ultimately are more borne of the intrinsic situation of Knuckles being a sworn guardian who ends up leaving the island from time to time anyway.

    All this does make me want an arc of IDW that requires Chaos’ presence, however. I think it’s really neat how the Archie book tied Chaos and a Master Emerald shard subplot to the Dark Gaia awakening. Granted, I don’t want to see that done again, but it’d be nice to explore what roles Chaos and Tikal can fulfil in the context of the modern setting.
     
  13. BlackHole

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    Hmm, he did need to recollect Sonic and Shadow's data, yet not Chaos'... aaaaah, I think I may see what Flynn did: he also says he needed the Master Emerald, so I think he's using that in lieu of Chaos' data. He needs Sonic and the Ultimate Lifeform's data, and the Master Emerald, instead of Sonic, the Ultimate Lifeform and Chaos's data.

    OH, and he used Froggy in Sonic Heroes for the latter because of contact with Chaos, after Chaos' tail forced his way into Froggy. So yeah, he can force his way into someone's lungs.

    [​IMG]

    Indeed, Chaos and Tikal have a great deal of potential, but I think we'll see them in action again when Chao Gardens are a thing again...
     
  14. ...it's a neat really short cameo of two forgotten characters for a few seconds in the short involving a character they have reason to be involved with. All of this "Oh this means they guard the Master Emerald when he's gone!" is a big stretch at best.
     
  15. raphael_fc

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    What I would really like to know is how the Hidden Palace fits in this. Why was the Master Emerald inside it during S3K? And why is it not there anymore? And what about West Side Island's Hidden Palace, that is canon now?
     
  16. DefinitiveDubs

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    How do Time Stones work? I understand that having all seven lets you control time, but...apparently having just one also lets you control time? What's the difference? According to CD, even just one allows you to control an entire planet. Granted, it's a little planet, but...I dunno. Is it the case that one Time Stone only affects something the size of Little Planet in its own pocket timeline while having all of them gives you control of the whole universe? What kind of time travel theory does CD operate under?
     
  17. Plorpus

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    There isn’t really a consistent one. Time Stones can control time but time in the Little Planet is already in some state of flux that allows Sonic to time travel anyway. Any further info on the Time Stones would have to come from a new Sonic project using them and I don’t think SEGA’s eager to touch them again.
     
  18. BlackHole

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    So Knuckles leaves when he sees one of the two nearby at least, but if someone attempted to take the Master Emerald neither Tikal nor Chaos would do a thing to stop it? They'd just sit there and say:


    Either we watched Knuckles leave the Master Emerald unguarded on the altar, thus Robotnik could just fly over and take it (he thinks the transporter was a trap by Robotnik, so he knows Robotnik can return at any point) and has been doing so frequently, or Chaos, who we know is still regularly active via Sonic Battle and implied in this Prologue, at least keeps an eye on the thing when he steps away to go attend to other stuff.
     
  19. Xiao Hayes

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    I suppose the main goal is to not let Robotnik have any of them, more than getting extra "time power". One alternative would be that having more of them allows to do the trick faster with less effort. You don't get a good ending with just one, anyway. Also, I can't remember if they're supposed to work only in little planet or they could be taken out and toy with time elsewhere, but of course it should be easier in a place where time travel is naturally possible than outside where regular physics apply. Sadly, I'm not sure how much of what I said enters into headcanon territory, because they didn't seem to bother with such details.
     
  20. BlackHole

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    According to the Sonic the Hedgehog CD manual:
    It only says the Little Planet is the home of the Time Stones, not that the Time Stones's power is limited to it.