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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. charcoal

    charcoal

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    So does that mean Classic Sonic (the design/character) is essentially gone, no more appearing? That feels like kind of an odd choice considering Mania's rave reviews but I guess they'd prefer to have a more unified brand, which makes sense.
     
  2. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    16:51 - Throughout the various desert stages in Sonic Adventure 2, there's echidna and emerald iconography— with statues in Hidden Base, inscriptions in Dry Lagoon, etc. Would it be likely that this may have been one of the areas subjugated by the Knuckles Clan in the past, or maybe another echidna clan's home turf entirely? SA2 doesn't go at all into echidna lore like SA1 did, but I've always found it fascinating.

    [Ian proposes a theory that the Knuckles Clan was fighting a rival egyptian-like echidnas tribe and that is why they tried to take the Chaos Emeralds]


    19:24 - Will we ever get a retelling of the reason as to why Wisps are still around on Sonic's world? I know the reason has been stated before, but to my knowledge, that was in the now-dead Sonic mobile game Sonic Runners. Does SEGA simply assume that people remember the plot of the mobile game they only cared to support for a single calendar year before putting it down like Old Yeller?

    [well basically that explanation kinda sorta still holds]


    24:52 - Although we've seen countless attempts before (such as trying to nuke Station Square), would you say Eggman has killed before? Even offscreen?

    - The official word, as far as I'm aware, is that no. No one has ever died to Eggman's exploits. [Ian says it mockingly and then explains why this is probably not true.]

    [Then Kyle talks about Operation Big Wave in Forces, in which Knuckles had 80% of his soldiers killed by Eggman's robots, and interestingly Ian says he doesn't know if it's canon because of the differences between English and Japanese scripts.]


    32:45 - Do you think there's any mileage you and the IDW crew could get out of Metal Sonic Mach 3.0 (Eggman Nega's version of Metal Sonic)? I know there isn't much to go off of since he only appeared in one game (Rivals 2) but since he has shown up again in Sonic Speed Battle Simulator and seems to have slightly different personality quirks than regular Metal, I was curious.

    [Ian currently doesn't think so because he's very attached to Eggman Nega, and he says the Roblox game is non-canon so they can do whatever they want.]

     
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I know, but I would assume they'd step in to stop anything harmful to the brand. But then...

    Honestly, I would love to see the Time Stones involved in a plot once again, but I think SEGA will just use the Chaos Emeralds for time stuff.
    Thank you very much.

    Also, y'know, Nega kinda being sealed into an alternative dimension with a giant fire monster, after being trapped under some rubble, which may or may not have killed him, and I'm kind of convinced is also the reason he doesn't appear in the Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) timelines...

    Gonna be honest, I don't think he's coming back from that.
     
  4. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Ian doesn't like him and also assumes he's dead until Sega says otherwise. I don't see a reason for him to come back, so he's more or less dead.

    They have a canon origin for the Chaos Emeralds (not sure about the Master Emerald) but it doesn't look like they thought of anything about the other gems.

    I like to assume they were created by ancient civilizations trying to replicate the Chaos Emeralds like Tails in SA2. But if they have a mystical - but different - origin as the Chaos Emeralds, it would be nice if they establish what they can really do because it's kinda confusing.
     
  5. Pengi

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    Even if Eggman Nega did die at the end of Sonic Rivals 2 (I don't think that was the intention), he's a time traveller. His encounters with Sonic don't have to be linear. Sonic's fifth encounter with Eggman Nega could be Eggman Nega's third encounter with Sonic.
     
  6. _Sidle

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    The JP manual describes them as such... [+]
    The powers of the Time Stones are only used twice in-game.
    • If Sonic collects all seven of the Time Stones, all of the robot generators in the past suddenly become destroyed.
    • If Sonic fails to collect all the Time Stones, and also fails to destroy all of the robot generators in the past, Eggman manages to acquire one Time Stone. [+] With that, he is able to revert Little Planet to how he had previously captured it, even restoring one of Never Lake's destroyed mountains to it's full mustached glory. [+]
     
  7. shilz

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    Nega is like... the only solid thing we have on Silver's future, and it's a dead end just because he kind-of-sort-of died in a game nobody can play anymore?

    GOD I hate how little we actually know of Silver's future. it makes it feel so meaningless every time he comes back to protect it. But there's a billion other ill-defined things in this franchise so why do I even bother getting upset over this one.
     
  8. It's odd that Sega still has the no use mandate for Eggman Nega in America. As well as posibly MS 3.0 now of course. Seemed that besides shard there were issues with the reboot in the same way too.

    Nega did cameo in the non-canon Olympic Games series, and they have him pop up in the Sonic Channel comic. I seriously doubt he's actually dead. If I remember right years ago Ian speculated that the tangled continuity was what prevented Eggman Nega from showing up back then, though Ian still snuck him into the Scourge prison arc as a silouette. I agree the time/dimension travel teleporter that Nega has means he can slip out of most situations, so rubble in another dimension seems like child's play. Kind of wish we had a 2D or B-Spnioff series just so they could play with expanding the wider world again.

    The future though. It seems they don't want to commit to any concrete timeline yet so I don't think we will get much of it until after everything is resolved behind the scenes. Having liked Silver Age in the Reboot comics kind of makes me wish they could start fleshing the world out better again in IDW so they can nail down some of these lingering unseen specifics. So much untapped potential.
     
  9. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    I’m 99% sure they don’t use Nega because they know they fucked his whole deal up and don’t want to deal with convoluted BS. At least Blaze was only from the future in one game and all the rest just ignored it.

    ANYWAY, I went through every classic manual except Drift 1/2 and Labyrinth and here are my notes in no particular order:

    CHAOTIX:

    The only lore stuff in the gameplay-related sections in Chaotix:

    The attractions themselves are basic level descriptions, but it does mention that Speed Slider is the roller coaster that’s Newtrogic High Zone’s main attraction. Also I guess Amazing Arena is supposed to be a funhouse? I could never really tell what half the Chaotix levels are going for because of the weird visual design.


    SONIC CD:

    Sonic CD’s manual describes Collision Chaos as a pinball course floating above the water. I don’t recall seeing any water in the level but I guess it ties in to Tidal Tempest being the next zone. Another interesting thing about the manual is that each zone has a Japanese translation of its name provided.

    There was some story stuff on page 33 that I didn’t see translations of on the wiki so I went ahead and did it myself.
    *コメカロボ (komekarobo) is what the enemies are called. It comes from ko (small or child) mecha and robo(t). I translated it as Ko-Mecha Robo to make the name origin clear but just calling them Komekarobo would be just as valid.


    SONIC 2 GG:

    Scrambled Egg Zone (written as Scranbled Egg Zone lol) is inside a secret base. I figured the background was black because of the night sky as a kid but looking at it again maybe this was obvious to everyone else! It teases a fight against Eggman’s super secret weapon, but then on the enemies page spoils it by showing Mecha Sonic. Not so top secret after all.


    SONIC CHAOS:

    Sleeping Egg Zone is described as “a mysterious island floating in the sky. In reality it is a fantasy world created by Eggman.” I always figured it was just a base disguised as ruins or something like that. So when it says fantasy world, does that mean it’s literally an illusion or just a level made to look like Eggman’s fantasy world? We will never ever know.

    Mecha Green Hill is in fact “South Island’s Green Hill remodeled into a mechanical world.” I always figured that was obvious but I’ve seen at least one person over the years say it’s a reproduction of it.

    The only level that really stands out to me is Aqua Planet. I figured it was just another weird level name for a normal water level, but…

    Huh?!


    SONIC 2 (GENESIS)

    Nothing interesting in the way of level descriptions for the most part, mostly just stuff like “a green field with corkscrews” or “Eggman’s chemical plant.” But Metropolis Zone is described as a “steampunk fortress” which I thought was pretty apt.


    SONIC 3D:

    Rusty Ruin’s description:
    So… 1) Atlantis exists in Sonic’s world. 2) Atlantis is either Flicky Island or somehow became a part of Flicky Island. Weird.
    Nothing else notable here.


    TAILS SKY PATROL:

    There aren’t any level sections, but a few minor translation things I noticed: while his name is probably based on the German Focke-Wulf jet, the katakana is Hokke not Fokke, so Hocke Wolf seems more accurate to me than what people were calling him before. I think that’s his official name now anyway, right?

    Also Bearenger’s name should probably have been romanized as Bearnger since there’s no “re” in there.


    SONIC TRIPLE TROUBLE:

    Oh, I just realized Meta Jungrila is a play on Shangri-La! I can’t believe it took me 25 years. According to its description it’s

    “an unexplored 1 billion year-old jungle.“


    Robotnik Winter’s description is a bit interesting.
    So apparently the level is caused by the Atomic Destroyer. Somehow.


    Speaking of which, apparently Atomic Destroyer is a sea floor fortress? Granted, I’ve never gotten that far but I thought it was just your average Scrap Brain style fortress. Guess that’s why you go to Tidal Plant first.


    Lastly, um… did anyone else know there are lyrics to some of the songs in the manual? Because there are. A couple of the yellow boxes on the pages have lyrics to sing for specific songs, or at least I think that’s what they are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
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  10. big smile

    big smile

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    Yay! Even though Runners is no longer canon, it looks like the explanation it gave for the wisps is still sticking.

    Fingers crossed that’s the case for all the other explanations Runners provided for all the various continuity oddities.
     
  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Not if he's pinned beneath rubble and unable to reach said teleporter, assuming it's portable in any way and isn't a fixed thing like Skynet's time travel device.

    It's not really all that tangled. Sonic Rush series > Nega betrays and attacks Robotnik > Sonic Rivals series. I was a little confused when they were working together again in Sonic Rush Adventure, but I figured it was taking place before Sonic Rivals.

    There's water at the very bottom of the stage, just out of reach. Interesting that they noted that.

    Considering it's a floating island called the Sleeping Egg Zone, I'd say the latter personally.

    I know sometimes there's different ways to read the Japanese of something, are there any alternatives to the word for dimension?

    Otherwise, hello another headcanon Subspace planet...

    Ah, so Chemical Plant Zone was always Robotniks. I had figured that, since it was built in plain view of the city, it was a refinery for something he'd hijacked later. Guess he wasn't a known threat on all islands by this point, especially since there's concept art of an Eggman Industries logo...

    [​IMG]

    Guess we know the industry now :D

    And the first explorer was a madman with robots...

    It could be a play on Nuclear Winter, considering it's called the Atomic Destroyer...

    It's also not the first time we've seen something rapid freeze after being hit by a Robotnik weapon:

    Just sayin'.

    The way they word that, it's like the Atomic Destroyer is not the fortress itself, just something housed within it. Neat.

    And I do love the little connection of having to get to the Atomic Destroyer by travelling through the wasteland it created, then down a system to get to the fortress on the seabed: it's even reflected in Tidal Plant Zone itself: you travel to the bottom through Act 2, then Act 3 is a long hallway where you fight off Knuckles.

    God I love continuity. Thank you very much for looking through those.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
  12. Blue Spikeball

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    We have translations for the zone descriptions of Sonic 1 MD, 2 MD, 2 GG, Chaos, CD, and 3 alone in the wiki. You might want to focus on the games that weren't translated yet, like S1GG, S&K or Triple Trouble, @Hitlersaurus Christ.
     
  13. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Is Chaos Control actually used for Time Travel in a game other than Sonic 06? Given all the other oddities that game had from attempting to be a soft reboot of the franchise, it wouldn't surprise me if it also features the only instance of the Chaos Emeralds being used for time travel as opposed to the usual warping and time slowing stuff.
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Just Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), really. Hmm, perhaps over in the headcanon thread...
     
  15. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I've always assumed that the Chaos Control do not allow time travel, but it was possible in 06 due to space time being fucked up in Soleanna since the Solaris Project. That is why the Chaos Control lead the characters to the exact point in time which they needed to go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
  16. BlackHole

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    Doesn't help that Robotnik also has a time travel device ripping holes in the timestream...
     
  17. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Maybe he was using the time connections that already existed in Soleanna. The same time connections that made people travel always to the same points in time - 200 years later or 10 years before - that I've assumed to be due to Solaris Project / Mephiles.
     
  18. BlackHole

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    He seemed to think it random, and I'm not sure who'd be visiting 200 years into the future and not freaking out about the giant lava monster destroying the world...

    Shadow and Silver are the ones to travel to the past, because they have that intention to go to that specific point together to figure out who Mephiles is.

    I might look into doing a timeline of events to figure out the events of Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)... I've got some work done from figuring out how many days the game took for that thing I did a while back.
     
  19. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    I'd say he's building another amusement park, because it's too barren to be interesting as it is, and a lot of it crumbles on touch, so it must be unfinished to the point of still being that fragile.
     
  20. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Iirc they weren't thinking that at all before the wormhole opens. Well maybe Shadow was, but Silver wasn't.