Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.
God I hate that line. It's like #knowingsmile.
[I think I can't bring my post from that thread to here. Can a moderator do it, please? That was my mistake.
EDIT: Thank you kindly.]
What I got from this was:
- Lost World 3DS is non canon
- Colors DS has some things canon despite Colors Wii (or Ultimate nowadays) being the canon version
- It looks like they are going to make the whole timeline, not only for classic Sonic.
But take these with an avalanche of salt, for I don't remember what he said exactly and that was my understanding at that moment. We will have to wait a few days.
People seem to get really mad at Ian for having to write off some things and/or not play all his cards, even if I know it's because basically everything he says or does related to the Sonic canon probably has to go through discussion and debate with Sega staff first. It's not like the guy can reveal or answer everything, he's got people he has to answer to first.
It's the same with the "#KnowingSmile" bits. He can't just tell you what they have planned, that wholly spoils things the company has in the pipeline. We're lucky to find out any hints before it comes (and that Sega allows that in the first place).
Then he should say "I can't answer that right now".
"Don't worry about it" reads like it's not something they plan to think about, despite it clearly being something a fan wants to know. It's also like they're patting people who paid them money for a question and shooing them off without actually supplying an answer: saying "I can't answer that right now" would at least come off as "I'll look into it and give you an answer".
Actually what he meant to say this time (in my interpretation) was: don't worry about it, your question will be answered soon, but I can't talk about it right now.
Alright, that's more reasonable, I'm sorry.
I was thinking about Mania again.
What if, at the end of Mania Plus Encore Mode, Sonic saved his friends but ended up being sucked into the Phantom Ruby's vortex as well? That could lead to the events of Mania Adventures. Since the scene doesn't fully show how they escaped the vortex, maybe Sonic didn't.
It's definitely silly, but hey, Eggman's a silly guy with a whole robot workforce on his command, I'm sure he could manage. I wonder what feats he actually has for churning out things quickly? ... A problem for another day.
Counter-counterpoints to that: the Hardboiled Heavies are permanently no longer EggRobos after the Ruby reacts to them after being dug up. They will always be the Hardboiled Heavies after that initial contact.
The Ruby can't send Sonic and Tails away immediately after being extracted, without transforming the EggRobos immediately and sending them away as well.
The EggRobos can't smack Knuckles in the face if they've already activated the Ruby, thereby becoming the Hardboiled Heavies, and have been whisked away to Green Hill with Sonic and Tails.
It should really just be chalked up to a Sonic Adventure-style alternate cutscene, where everyone agrees something happened, but perspective alters the fine details.
Same way that in CD he always goes to the future for every third act, without any cutscene to indicate he was time traveling to the future prior, and then back to the present again for the next level :P
I think the major thing there is Mirage Saloon is generously supplied with ice cream and seltzer-water by Eggman, which implied there are people around to eat + drink that regularly, which there wouldn't be on Angel Island... Actually wait, now I'm imagining a flicky having the time of it's life with a large cone, scoops bigger than it's face...
the perfect bait to lure them into the little prison capsules
Well he built an entire stellar amusement park with tons of fun things for people to do with no people around.
I mean, Sonic the Hedgehog 3 has him repairing the Death Egg from a orbital faceplant to working order ready for the Master Emerald (must... not... rage...), plus giant thrusters, Launch Base Zone, Carnival Night Zone, I don't think Flying Battery counts since that might have just travelled there but I digress, by the time Sonic's managed to get to Angel Island in what's stated to be a few days maximum:
So definitely within the realm of possibility.
Counter-counter-counterpoint, they're still in the illusion for Encore Mode, so the first two would be, well, illusions.
As for the third, it's IDW comic, so I don't consider it canonical to the games universe. If they do merge the continuities together, which I would not prefer but heyho, an earlier story shows him building the Heavy King, so easy headcanon is that Robotnik 'brings them' to reality by constructing them from his memories in the illusion.
Or the events were an illusion overlaying the involved cast's perception, so Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are kind of stood in the middle of Angel Island, like what was happening with Tikal's visions in Sonic Adventure.
Watching the new TailsTube again I like how they explain why Knuckles leaves Angel Island so much. "Hey, I leave my island plenty, and it's always to help when you can't save the world on your own." (shows clips of Sonic Heroes, Zero Gravity and Forces). It doesn't explain every game appearance but it's nice as a general rule of thumb.
I think either nobody talking about Lost World 3ds actually meant to say Lost World 3ds, or nobody talked about Lost World 3ds. Lost World 3ds is the only Dimps-alternative game after Unleashed to really be no different from the "main" version, using cutscenes from it and constructing their own game around it.
Generations 3ds on the other hand has absolutely nothing of value so that's probably what everyone meant
The manual for Colour states that Sonic and Tails snuck in prior to opening day.
As a general response to ongoing Mania discussion, I feel like the idea that anything and everything done by the Phantom Ruby being an illusion is taking the path of most resistance when there’s too much circumstantial evidence that it makes real, persistent changes. Leaving aside my own head canon on what exactly that means, a big one is Little Planet. After the Phantom Ruby leaves with Sonic for the plot of Forces, Little Planet leaves in its normal way. Nothing about its disappearance matches any depiction of an illusion fading in either Mania or Forces. Further, if everything is an illusion, what’s even the point of the scene transitions? Why bother showing how the gang gets to each Zone if it’s all just the illusion changing. This is particularly the case with stuff like the sub flying from Oil Ocean to Lava Reef or Studiopolis being accessible via a sewage system from Chemical Plant.
It’s telling that the Ruby is used for transport 4 times, with all those situations occurring when there’s no logically feasible or established method of getting to the next Zone. Those are Angel Island to Green Hill (the one exception to the pattern of circumstance but was clearly meant to demonstrate what the Ruby can do while succinctly getting the action going), Green Hill to Chemical Planet (South Island to Westside Island), Press Garden to Stardust Speedway (Maybe Westside Island to Little Planet) and Stardust Speedway to Hydrocity (Little Planet to Angel Island). Every other transition occurs organically in a manner that makes sense if the game is taking place within reality (with the exception of Hydrocity to Mirage Saloon leaving the player to fill in the gaps, but it’s very practical for Sonic and the gang to book it from Hydrocity to Angel Island Zone in order to take the Tornado back to Westside Island).
Thanks for looking it up.
What else could he be talking about, though? That's the only place in the game where it's possible to snowboard, and he's at the station where a train takes you to Mystic Ruins. Other NPCs make similar mentions of things you can do in the game clearly referencing the levels.
Well I don't think everything was an illusion. Metallic Madness and Titanic Monarch were real. But that doesn't mean everything was real either, since the Phantom Ruby is all about that (and probably the Mania devs didn't know this at the time).
And about the Little Planet... it leaves after the end of Mania, but what about Encore Mode? All Little Planet levels were there. Does Encore Mode take place 1 year after Mania Mode? Or is Encore Mode all-illusion?
Simplest answer: he just wants to go snowboarding. He doesn't have a particular location in mind, he just wants to do the act and would look for a place to go later, and it was only to serve as foreshadowing for the upcoming Ice Cap Zone.
I disagree. The fact he said he wanted to do it after work implies that he knew where to go to me. It's not like he said "I'd like to do snowboarding at some point in the future"
Besides, it's not an activity that can just be done anywhere. You don't go "I just got the sudden urge to go snowboarding after work. I don't know where I could do it, but eh whatever. Shouldn't take long to find a place, I'm sure there are dozens of snow mountains near this coastal city."
He probably knew that there were snow mountains one train trip away at Mystic Ruins.
Depends on the definition of job: is he talking about a job like a daily shift or a job like a contractor working on a roof?
He could mean he's doing a specific contracted job in Station Square, and once he's done and back home, he'll look into snowboarding for a nice holiday.
Or he's planning to quit his job and go snowboarding, if we want to cover all bases.
If Sega decides there could be people living there, so there's people. If Sega decides there can not be people living there, so it's for tourists.
5:37 - Hi Ian! Sometime ago you said the 8-bit version of Sonic 1 has become a different adventure than its 16-bit counterpart. This also applies to other games such as Colors Wii and DS, and Generations HD vs 3DS?
- Case by case basis. Generally speaking you can just worry about the console version being the canon version. Colors is a special case (I'm not sure how much I can talk about). Suffice to say, don't worry too much about it right now. If and when it's made public it will be made public and then you can worry about it.
25:41 - @BKQA Time Stones control time. Warp Topaz, space. Chaos Rings, power. Phantom Ruby, reality. The Chaos Emeralds, all of it. Is there a pattern here?
- If there is, I'm not aware of it.
[then they joke about the Sol Emeralds controlling the soul]
53:13 - Does Sega know about the backlash at how shadow is portrayed? P.S. I don't blame you for the mess that is Shadow's character
- I don't wanna speak for the entire company, but I do know there are folks that are aware of it.
[Continuation] 1:18:31 - Since some in Sega that know about the shadow problem are there attempts to fix it or will Shadow stay as diet Vegeta and not the fun type of Diet
- I am not remotely going to talk about inner Sega office talks or workings.
59:29 - @BKQA Are all tailstube episodes canon? If so tails just exposed angel island and the ME to harm by telling the public. Also if they are canon, does tails know the mystery girl?
- Keep in mind Angel Island fell off the coast of Station Square. (...) Angel Island is known. (...) As for canon, it's canon enough.
1:16:16 - Was the “Robotic Abominations” line in the new tails tube in reference to IDWs Battle on Angel Island arc?
- You could read it that way, or you could read this as Mecha Sonic trying to steal it (...)in S3K , you could read it as Heavy King trying to steal it in Mania...
1:28:20 - @BKQA Are there many mandates on using the Sol Dimension? It’s a bit disappointing to me how there doesn’t seem to be much interest in expanding on it
- No! They were surprisingly receptive when we showed Blaze's palace [in IDW] (...).
1:31:47 - @BKQA Why Shadow don't take his limiters off now ? Kinda sure he would have beat infinite without them
- Yeah, I don't know.
1:32:12 - @BKQA A lot of Sonic lore has been adjusted and solidified recently, so is there any chance the moon might turn back around so we can see its blown-up side? I think it would look very cool
1:43:17 - The IDW Comics is in its own canon (a wonderful one, I have to say), but can we consider its elements and characters' feats canon to the games' lore?
- How much can I say about this? The comics are definitely influenced by game events, and you might see some comic elements cross [I coudn't hear this]. But the two are still largely independent.
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