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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    - Iblis makes a bad future in 06
    - Blaze + Elise + Sonic make a good future in 06
    - Eggman Nega + Ifrit make a bad future in Rivals 2
    - Silver + everyone make a good future in Rivals 2
    - The future is still good in Colors DS
    - Eggman + Time Eater make a bad future in Generations (I guess?)
    - Sonic makes a good future in Generations (I guess?)
    - Eggman + the Phantom Ruby coming from another dimension the past make a bad future in Forces
    - Silver + Classic Sonic + everyone make a good future in Forces
     
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I guess the Time Eater would have been the most likely culprit for the loss of Sonic Colours (DS)'s Good Future...

    Either that or Silver didn't realise the 'happy smiles' were really 'enslaved smiles' under the Phantom Ruby...
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I'm not so sure. Since the Phantom Ruby in Forces came from the past, it is a disturbance in the spacetime that was effectively used by Eggman. It makes sense if that changes the future.
    In Generations, supposedly everything came back to normal after Sonic restored the levels and defetead the Time Eater (I guess even the split timeline is dead by now).
     
  4. Starduster

    Starduster

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    We also really don't have a good source on which parts of each version of Colours are canon. I think I'd be speaking for the majority in saying that the ideal is that all the interactions with the supporting cast actually happened, but as far as I've seen (and maybe someone can prove me wrong on this), there hasn't been an official statement on this kind of stuff in some time (perhaps 2018/19 would've been the last reference?). As I believe I referenced earlier in this thread, Post-Super Genesis Wave Archie referenced Silver's presence in Colours DS, but that's an alternate universe (which also places Unleashed after Colours and Generations) with a completely different setting and status quo so not really a good representation of the official stance at this point.

    Not helping things is Colours Ultimate and Rise of the Wisps, which add content to the game and story in the form of Metal's presence in the park and the jade wisp, yet neither the game nor the short make any effort to incorporate DS elements, despite the Mother Wisp showing up in TSR, as well as handheld exclusive wisps from Colours and Lost World showing up in Forces and TSR. Of course, there's an argument to be made that these wisps can still exist even if only the Wii version/Ultimate is canon, but the absence of the Mother Wisp in that case would be quite jarring.

    At any rate, with regards to the specific complaint of Silver's future seemingly being in flux, I'll paraphrase my opinion from the TailsTube thread that IDW has ultimately given us the most eloquent answer. Silver stays in Sonic's era because he feels there's no longer a place for him in the good future he created after the Metal Virus saga, and it's this decision that guarantees a good future because Silver's permanent residency in Sonic's era means he's always available to help out in any scenario that requires him, without having to be spurred on by a bad future appearing that raises questions about ripple effect memories. At the same time, I feel like the guarantee of a good future without too many details of what exactly that is keeps the setting hopeful without diminishing the personal stakes. Maybe Silver falls somewhere along the way to see that future protected (I mean he won't because SEGA plot armour, but I digress, it could happen to one of the comic OCs). If the media pillars are truly melding together as seems to be the case, then IDW will hopefully give us more to draw on regarding things the games can't or don't flesh out.
     
  5. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    From my understanding of the games (only), Silver travels through time to change the future ONLY when something has messed up or is about to mess up space-time in the present, such that Sonic is unable to save the world. It happened this way with Mephiles the god of time (+ Soleanna's scientists) in 06; with Eggman NEGA who came from the future in Rivals 1 and 2; and with the Phantom Ruby that came from the past in Forces. If nothing messes up space-time, Sonic will always save the world, and Silver will never need to travel back in time. And since Sonic and his friends are the ones responsible for forging the future, and they will always win, Silver's future will always be the same good future.
     
  6. shilz

    shilz

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    We still don't exactly know how Silver's relationship to the future works officially, or who or what "sent him back" (as he describes it in IDW) which is the thing I'm most interested in learning. Even if we just assume there's something to pull him back before his future is changed, Forces yet again is the wrench in it all even if IDW follows in the footsteps, it still let Silver know something fucked up *after* they did what was supposed to fix everything after forces.

    (The fact he describes being sent back rather than *going* back kinda makes me think it's an instinctive thing and he somehow has his very own Time Travel powers now that happen to activate when it lines up with what he thinks is the bad future.)
     
  7. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    The original Phantom Ruby was never stated to have come from the past. The one in Mania (which I guess is now considered the past) was a prototype from Forces’ time but we only know that the original one appeared outside of Eggman’s base for some reason. It was assumed that they were the same gem but apparently not.
     
  8. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I think that's the one he's referring to: the one that came from Sonic Mania to Sonic Forces, per the Rise of Infinite comic.

    Also still wondering how the Phantom Ruby Prototype got to the events of Sonic Mania... wasn't it a plot point in Sonic Forces that Phantom Rubies can only be activated by whoever initially activated it? So how did it trigger for the opening cutscenes in Sonic Mania, assuming Robotnik activated it for a test that resulted in it going back to those events?
     
  9. Pengi

    Pengi

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    The comics don't reference the events of Sonic Mania. The Phantom Ruby just showed up.
     
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Wasn't it mentioned that was the Sonic Mania Phantom Ruby somewhere?

    Otherwise, we've got a feedback loop of Robotnik finding one of his Prototypes, making more, an experiment sends one of the prototypes back to Rise of Infinite, and Sonic Mania's Sonic just comes in from nowhere...
     
  11. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Pretty sure it was stated (by Ian IIRC) that the ruby in the comic was the original, not the prototype from Mania. The artist just drew the prototype design due to poor communication.
     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    But which one's the original? The one Robotnik finalises for Sonic Forces? So it's a bootstrap paradox?
     
  13. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    The original is the one Eggman found half-buried in the comic. It has no relation to the one from Mania, there is no paradox or loop.
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    So it's just a random gemstone he found, alright.
     
  15. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Pretty much, yeah.
     
  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    So he found a powerful gem, which he proceeded to make a single copy that keeps getting referred to as the Final Prototype, then dispose of all other prototypes, barring one that ended up in Sonic Mania's events and one that ends up in the hands of the Avatar? And the original one is...?
     
  17. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    He found the original and made a bunch of copies ("prototypes") before cutting and refining it into the final ruby, which would be used by Infinite in the game. One of the copies/prototypes ended up in the Mania timeline.
     
  18. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Past now, but one has to wonder why he only made the one copy, instead of a veritable army of prototype Rubies... And the question remains on how it activated in Sonic Mania, but I digress.

    EDIT: Also, where the original Phantom Ruby is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2022
  19. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    The prototypes were unstable or defective in some unspecified way, which is why he has Infinite destroying them during the events of the game. It doesn’t make a lot of sense, much like the rest of Forces.
    You can see the original Phantom Ruby in the mouth(?) of the final boss. The one in the comic looks like the prototype rubies because the comic artists weren’t given any reference, but it’s supposed to be the same as the ”raw ore” version in the following concept art:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I'm not so sure that Mania's Phantom Ruby is a prototype by now.

    Yes, we have that concept art (and where did that come from? I really don't know), but we cannot be certain that Sega still uses that.
    Ian himself thought Mania's Phantom Ruby was the real deal, and that is because Forces never showed anything about a prototype traveling dimensions. We have Tails saying something like "Maybe the power Eggman's using is affecting other dimensions", but that is vague as hell. And that is not even another dimension anymore.

    At some point they are going to make an official Modern timeline and I feel they are going to say Mania's Phantom Ruby is the original, because it's simpler.