Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.
I figured the emoticon would indicate it was a joke at my expense, my apologies.
Even in the comparison Kyle (the cohost) mentions it's a pedantic and dumb comparison, I don't think it was meant to be taken as anything more than being a devil's advocate.
Here's the Ultimate Timeline Form:
Spoiler: Large image
I find it interesting that you included the Sonic Lost World prequel comic. Of course, that tie-in was set in the main continuity, but I wonder if the events in it are still considered canon, given it was published under Archie. Otherwise, I largely agree with this assessment. With that said, how did you place certain classic games? I find it somewhat arbitrary to place R before Chaotix. If you're doing it on the grounds that the Metal Sonic seen between CD/Generations and Mania is a different model to the one in those games, then surely it'd make more sense to put Chaotix towards the end of the "Game Gear" era after Drift 2, since it's kind of the only game which leaves it ambiguous as to whether that Metal Sonic survives its encounters with Sonic & co., so there's a case to make that its fight as Metal Sonic Kai was its last one, given that we see that robot doing a lot of exploding but no reverted Metal Sonic popping out again after the fact.
Man, Sonic 4 really made this a hassle by showing that the original Metal Sonic was still on Little Planet after the events of Sonic CD...
I don't know either. But that comic has almost nothing useful to the story, so it can become non-canon without much trouble.
It was totally arbitrary, I also prefer Chaotix before 3D Blast. I did this way only because of the placements Ian suggested, as I took them literally.
Hrrrm. Really gotta wonder what the rationale with Metal Sonic is then. Of course we have the first Metal Sonic who appears in CD, Generations, Mania and Sonic 4, but then there's also a Metal Sonic that appeared in games outside of those which, when applying Occam's Razor to the information presented to us, can't really be the same Metal Sonic. Further complicating things is the fact that there exists two additional Metal Sonic's in Stardust Speedway present during the Sonic Mania boss fight. What do these represent? Are these anomalies created by Eggman's abuse of time travel, or do they indicate that there were actually two further models between Sonic R and Sonic Drift 2 (referring to your timeline) rather than just one? That would help reconcile the idea that the Metal seen in Chaotix may have been destroyed at the end of that game, but doesn't resolve the question of why Eggman needed to retrieve the original Metal Sonic if he still had a rebuilt one at his side?
any way you could discuss this would be entirely headcanon territory, the logical explanation for these inconsistencies is the fact all of these games aren't supposed to be under the same timeline
is this an attempt at compiling the timeline that sega has established for modern sonic media like sonic frontiers and the idw comics or is this just a fanmade timeline?
Out of universe, of course, but that's not what we're discussing here. Fact is that these games are all canon now. Even if you subscribe to a timeline theory due to Mania/Forces, the proposed main and Mania timelines still have a shared past that includes Chaotix and R and CD and such, which means this issue still arises even under the proposition of a split timeline. SEGA doesn't necessarily need to address this insofar as we already accept that Sonic 4 and Sonic Mania were made at times when the likes of Chaotix and such seemingly weren't canon, but until they do, the mystery certainly makes for an intriguing discussion.
I'm assuming it goes like this:
- Metal Sonic #1 is destroyed in Sonic CD;
- Eggman builts Metal Sonic #2, and he is destroyed in Sonic the Fighters;
- Eggman builts Metal Sonic #3 and he survives the entire Game Gear era;
- Metal Sonic #3 is then defeated in Mania, with the corpses of Metal Sonics #1 and #2 hanging on the wall;
- Metal Sonic #3 is recovered in Sonic 4 after the events of Mania.
It's a fanmade timeline as an attempt at compiling the timeline that Sega has established.
Metal Sonic survives Sonic the Fighters, he shows up after the credits.
Pretty sure Sega won't allow there to be more than one Metal Sonic.
You are right, I forgot that. Maybe he was destroyed in Knuckles Chaotix - and/or maybe Chaotix happens after Sonic the Fighters.
Well they kind of sort of already did in Mania.
EDIT: my reply to Pengi.
Did we ever get any explanation on the broken Metal Sonics in Mania? I figured they were old bodies he "shredded" after they were destroyed and his CPU was transferred to a new body, like stated in the Chaotix manual.
I don't think we did. But that was precisely my reasoning here.
See but then why is Metal Sonic #3 on Little Planet in Mania? By all accounts, Little Planet was chained to Angel Island as a result of reality warping rather than being an illusion, given that it disappears just the same way Little Planet does at the end of Sonic CD with no glitching effects, despite the fact the Phantom Ruby's influence disappeared as it was transported to the future along with Sonic. Given this would've happened unnaturally and we haven't seen Little Planet pop up between Sonic CD and Sonic 4 outside of time travel/reality warping shenanigans, it follows that this is therefore the same Metal Sonic who appeared in CD and Generations, that being Metal Sonic #1, given that Metal was already shown to be on Little Planet in the transition from Press Garden to Stardust Speedway. Furthermore, because Little Planet hadn't popped up again until now, there'd be no reason for Metal #3 to be there...
*cogs continue to whir for a second*
...unless Metal #3 was warped there by Eggman when bringing Little Planet into place. This would probably be a more economical use of the Phantom Ruby than trying to patch up Metal #1, and does quite neatly reconcile the idea of a successor model showing up after CD, yet Eggman still retrieving Metal from Little Planet in Sonic 4. The only issue at this point is figuring out how Metal #2's shell got there...I mean maybe Eggman warped it there for the sake of a cool boss arena, he is rather indulgent in theatrics, but that answer doesn't particularly satisfy me.
Mania and Sonic 4 both have Metal Sonic already on the Little Planet, complete with his original mind/CPU, so placing them together in the same continuity causes problems. That’s also not even getting into how he’s in the other classic games, which only makes sense now if you assume it’s a different metal sonic (which is doubtful considering he’s treated as a singular character.) Basically the only way to make it work would be to insert some unseen adventures similar to Sonic CD’s plot in between appearances. I’m not a fan.
As for the two broken Metal Sonic bodies in Mania, I think they’re just Easter eggs referencing his previous appearances/defeats in CD and Chaotix without any intended plot relevance besides maybe “It’s the Phantom Ruby, I ain’t gotta explain shit”
Chaotix does establish that the Metal Sonic involved was a different body to the one seen in Sonic the Hedgehog CD, so there would be multiple Metal Sonics, Metal Sonic and Metal Sonic Kai:
Of course, since they're ignoring manuals, I can't vouch for the canon status of this detail, but multiple Metal Sonics have already been established by the original Sonic Team for a precedent at least.
That is what I've imagined.
Even if we assume those other two Metal Sonics were just Phantom Ruby shenanigans, and there were never other bodies hanging on the wall in the first place, that Metal Sonic defeated in Sonic CD couldn't be the same one from Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic the Fighters and the Game Gear games, because Eggman couldn't have retrieved him until Little Planet shows up again.
We could assume that Metal Sonic from Mania is the same one from CD, but we would have to come up with an explanation for the other Metal Sonic appearing in Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic the Fighters and the Game Gear games and not appearing after - since he wasn't destroyed in Sonic Drift 2.
It works better if Mania's Metal Sonic were a third body, imo.
That is the only explanation I can think of, really.
Different concepts of "multiple Metal Sonic" are being mixed here. The same Metal Sonic having different bodies isn't the same as multiple Metal Sonics, and I suspect Sonic Team's issue would be with the latter. Metal Sonic isn't mass producible, there aren't multiples of him, he's an individual- but we can assume that individual being retrofitted in different bodies for repairs etc etc. It is, after all, a robot.
Separate names with a comma.