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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    As well as that giant penis-shaped weapon in Unleashed.
     
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I never said they didn't notice, I said they wouldn't have the element of surprise.

    Unlike the ARK, which would logically have authorised and scheduled visits that G.U.N. soldiers could use to get aboard, the Death Egg would probably just shoot down anything that approached outside of Robotnik's vessel and badniks.

    Of course, this is headcanon and speculation in response to someone claiming supremacist motivations in a series about a supersonic blue hedgehog fighting a mad scientist over all-powerful gemstones, so should probably move that over to the Headcanon thread if we continue.

    So here's a continuity query: Gerald had a Chaos Emerald 50 years ago, Elise would have a Chaos Emerald 10 years ago, was that the missing seventh Chaos Emerald at South Island during Sonic the Hedgehog (Mega Drive)?
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I didn't get that Gerald part. As for Elise, I would assume there were 8 Emeralds during the classic Era: the seven ones and Elise's. Because Elise's Emerald came from the future, so it's a duplicate of one of the seven ones.
     
  4. Only for viewing

    Only for viewing

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    you should be moving this to the headcanon thread
     
  5. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Ugh, you went quite far today, uh? I'll see it and double the bet: who would dare fight a guy who can travel to the outer space, bring some planets with him and chain them to make them become his amusement park right up there in the sky of his homeworld? Better keep using that speedy rodent (no pun intented, Mr. Gonzales) as bait, and, if that fails, hide every human and let the furries be the resistance.
     
  6. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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    I assume Gerald's Chaos Emerald later ended up on South Island.

    As for Elise, I have no idea. Would she even still have the emerald after Solaris was erased from the timeline?
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Interesting counter, her having the Chaos Emerald requires those events so that it draws Shadow and Silver to that point in time...

    But... wait, Silver also prevents Elise's death, so how did Shadow go back in time to deal with Mephiles in the first place, since that only happens while fighting Silver, and since Silver changes the timeline, that line of events couldn't have happened originally...

    This requires further study....
     
  8. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    3:48
    - What’s your thoughts on Sonic the Fighters’ canonicity? Between the 8 Chaos Emeralds and there being two separate Death Egg 2s thanks to Sonic 4, I guess it makes sense for it not to be, I just think it feels off for Bean and Bark to be canon but their only true game appearance to not be.

    - Sonic the Fighters as far as I know is counted, but kind of like Spinball as we discussed last week. You don't think too hard about it. There was a fighting tournament to decide who'd get the Emeralds and go fight Eggman on his Death Egg. Maybe it got blown up so fast he decided that one didn't count and he made Death Egg 2 in Sonic 4.



    4:49
    - Is Sonic 4 canon?

    - Yeah, as far as I know.



    28:17
    - Have you ever noticed that when Blaze absorbs Iblis and vanishes to another dimension in 06, her cuffs turn fiery pink like Burning Blaze's? I've long felt that to be a visual hint at a connection between Iblis and the Sol Emeralds but I never see anyone mention it.

    - Actually I was doing research for another project on this specifically, and here's the thing. At the end of Silver's story and Blaze is sealing Iblis in her soul because she can handle the fiery power, she tells him to send her to another dimension, and he can't bring himself to do it. And then Blaze turns into Burning Blaze. This is said in the script - and I feel comfortable enough saying that because that was leaked years ago, so it's out there. And she removes herself from the scenario, presumably going back to her home Dimension. And Burning Blaze can do that because that's what the Sol Emeralds do. This assumes that she's had the Sol Emeralds on her for the entirety of 06 (...). You are right, that's Burning Blaze, that's her going home. And the fact that she has Iblis locked inside her still is unresolved.



    35:13
    - Hey since Elise only went back ten years to destroy Solaris does that mean Solaris still existed once? As blowing out the flame of Solaris ten years ago wouldn’t erase it from existence from all points of time before she blew it out. Also it was established that Solaris needs to be destroyed in the past, present and future to be destroyed completely so how does Elise blowing it out in only one point in time in the past erase it completely?

    - First, I believe the past/present/future destruction thing was within the context of what Solaris had already done to spacetime, which was break down the dimensional barries into this kind of homogeneous miasmic non-time. So confronting Solaris in this null space was effectively hitting it all three points (...). As for the time travel and snuffing it out, I don't know if it was just 10 years, it could have been longer. Because what we see is the containment unit that's holding the flame, and it had been moved to a completely different facility when the Duke did what he did and everything exploded, and we had a plot. So it could have been 10 years and one month, it could have been 12 years, it could be 20 years. We don't know. But your point is still valid, if she went back and snuffed out the flame before the experiment, it would still exist before that point in time. But I guess the Crux of it is that it just wasn't split. She erased it before the Duke did his crazy Mad Science, and that was the big thing (...).


     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    "They're focusing on and giving a crap about continuity!"
    Half the answers are "Don't think about it too hard."

    Frelling monkey's paw...

    Ah, so she had the Sol Emeralds all along, that's fair and reasonable.

    Also, Iblis was resolved: he was wiped out with Solaris. Save everyone a headache.
     
  10. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    That's what I thought too. If blowing Solaris erased him from all timelines, it also erases Iblis from inside Blaze.

    And I really like she having the Sol Emeralds with her in 06 (despite never using them in game), because if she used them to travel back to the Sol Dimension, it means she could have used them to travel from the Sol Dimension to Sonic's dimension.
     
  11. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    The thing with Burning Blaze isn’t actually mentioned in the leaked script, Ian is mistaken there. Not that it really matters or affects anything, of course. 06 is a mess anyway, especially Blaze’s stuff.
     
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  12. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    On a second thought... why wouldn't she use the Sol Emeralds during the game? And why would they need the Chaos Emeralds to seal Iblis if she had the Sol Emeralds?
     
  13. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Perhaps the Sol Emeralds don't work on Iblis, or because of their similar firey strengths there's too much risk of Iblis consuming their power, like Chaos did the Chaos Emeralds.

    But that's speculation and headcanon.
     
  14. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    The real reason is that they either didn’t think of it or just didn’t want to use them in the story. It could have to do with whether or not they wanted it to be before or after Sonic Rush. Like, does she get the sol emeralds after this game or does she already have them? Her knowing Sonic would suggest that she should have the emeralds (I’m assuming they originally wanted her world to actually be the future despite it not making sense since they did the same thing with Eggman Nega, though that’s just speculation). However, Silver’s ending has her sealed in another dimension… maybe? She asks Silver to do it but he can’t and she calls him naive and just kind of fades away… but Maekawa said in a tweet that while it’s not official, he thought of it as a way to connect with Sonic Rush.
    I’m guessing there were multiple drafts of the script with different explanations for Blaze and the final draft ended up using parts from each. Whether the sol emeralds were ever part of it I can’t say, but they’d introduce a whole other element to the story that was already convoluted so I understand them not being featured.
     
  15. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Ignoring the hyperbole, sometimes that's what you gotta do with older games that were more liberal in their usage and depiction of series elements. Granted, it's a response that should be used sparingly and I think there should certainly be more though given to the Death Egg Mk. II, but the zany amounts of Chaos Emeralds in Spinball and Fighters really do not need an explanation beyond "yeah that's a flub, overlook that, it's not canon". People pretty readily accept that Shadow the Hedgehog cannot play out as presented in-game as far as continuity goes, or that Sonic Colours' story likely exists as an amalgam between its two versions insofar as all the wisps across each version do exist and Sonic maybe turned Super to fight the corrupted Mother Wisp and his friends may have been there (a little spotty on those last two points, I know Archie Sonic referenced the latter post reboot but that's an AU that's its own beast and I don't know how representative it is of the official stance). We very easily apply the same logic to Spinball and Fighters and any other game that presents inexplicable contradictions to say "these games happened in terms of their core events, but some details did not occur as presented in gameplay". I don't think it's pragmatic to bend over backwards for every single inconsistency or oddity that we see, lest we start calling Sonic a murder for all that small animals he let fall to their deaths during Sky Chase and Mirage Saloon.


    Using the Battle for Angel Island arc from IDW as supplementary canon, Blaze was pretty tired out after transforming into Burning Blaze to decimate the Egg Fleet, so it's possible that she don't want to leave herself vulnerable to that unless absolutely necessarily.

    Alternatively, consider the idea that 06 takes place before Rush. It was only at the end of Rush that Blaze understood the true power of the emeralds and that source being friendship (lol). Given all that, it's possible she wasn't even capable of willingly transforming into Burning Blaze until that point. Or perhaps Burning Blaze is a manifestation of the power of Iblis that may still reside within her (though that's very fanwanky).[/QUOTE]
     
  16. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    But since they are retconning things that aren't necessarily needed, they should retcon (or at least create explanations to solve) things in these games as well.
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I maintain "Together with Maria..." is the canon path, since it hits all the key details needed, you fight Robotnik at the end but don't kill him, so you've not miffed Black Doom nor Sonic, nor Robotnik since a day getting into a fight with him is a day ending in y.

    The only issues are Shadow deciding he's the ARK's protector and the storyline ending on the ARK, but honestly, that can easily be resolved with "Shadow decided to go confirm his past and hopped over to the Black Comet".

    SEGA also said it was the Hero Path that was canon, but I think at this point, we all know I'm in conflict with SEGA's stance on these stories...

     
  18. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Seriously? That ship already sailed away a long time ago.

    Was that a Farscape reference, Harvey?
     
  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    [​IMG]
    Finally, someone notices one!
     
  20. Pengi

    Pengi

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    What's the source for this?