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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    I'm one who doesn't reject stories with side-stories and/or suplementary materials and such...
    But I'm also one who usually only cares about main stories and continuities, not paying much heed to those extra contents.

    I got no issues with the movies, with Prime, with comics, etc.
    But I can't see them as part of the main continuity, only the games I believe relevant to it.

    It's a partial and biased take on what SEGA's trying to do, I know.
    But in the midst of such clusterfuck that are the full lineup of Sonic games, comics, shows, movies, etc, I simply can't be impartial and accepting of everything.
     
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    What about those Sonic Forces comics that came out that say they're canon but can't keep the story straight because Sonic Forces?

    Which is also why I don't think unifying the franchise is gonna be a good idea in the slightest.
     
  3. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Did you read the last couple lines?
    I gave my opinion of it there ^^"
     
  4. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I do not want the comics to be canon to the games, but I don't mind the tie-in comics here and there, like the Forces prequel and - I believe - one for Lost World.

    15:39
    - Did you manage to get back to sega on what the planet is called[?]

    - Earth.



    28:37
    - I recognize that this may be a question better directed at Daniel Barnes, but I figured you may have some insight here nonetheless. Mecha Sonic Mk II is slated to appear in Scrapnik Island, but up until now I would have assumed that he would be a Classic-continuity exclusive character. What's the deal there? Are robots like him treated a bit differently in regards to the Classic/Modern split? Or is it something else?

    [Ian was also surprised by that, and it looks like it's a internal logic Sega is pulling off, which I would assume it's the complete unification of classic and modern that is yet to happen.]


    32:28
    - In Sonic Generations, Classic Sonic, Tails, Eggman, and Metal Sonic were clearly pulled from the Classic era, but WHEN EXACTLY from the Classic era were they pulled? Considering we never see any Classic Knuckles or anyone else, I'm tempted to think they come from just after Sonic 2/CD but before 3 & Knuckles, but it would also be way simpler if they were all just pulled from post-3&Knuckles so that it was a "fully Classic Sonic'' which goes right into Mania right after Generations.

    [the answer is don't worry about it]


    33:36
    - Can Shadow use Chaos Snap without a Chaos Emerald? That would explain how he is able to teleport so often without one throughout the series, like during the opening of Episode Shadow 06 for example

    [Ian is working under that assumption and waiting for Sega to complain.]

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2022
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Did not realise that covered the prequel comics, I thought it only covered the full series comics, like Archie, Sonic the Comic and IDW. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  6. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Prequel comics?
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Wouldn't need a unification if they hadn't done the split in the first place. Timeline splits are rarely a good idea. Dragon Quest pulled one off by making it a joke, but let's not get into The Legend of Zelda's snafu.

    I do not like this answer. As in, #knowingsmile hate, where I hate that it's an answer given.

    Those four issues showing how things led up to the events of Sonic Forces. The one where Robotnik finds the Phantom Ruby in the ground, uses it on Knuckles in another, etc.
     
  8. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Thing is, the scenario for those comics was originally written by SEGA, with Ian taking them and basically making them into a full script with scene blocking, etc.. That is to say that those comics having a messy relationship to the story doesn't have much to do with the fact that they're comics and more to do with Forces' story juts being a mess. Right now we're very fortunate in the sense that the most involved writers within the IDW book (Ian and Evan and to a lesser extent Aaron Hammerstrom and Daniel Barnes) are huge fans of the series so I personally would absolutely trust them to keep the continuity clean. Secondly, Ian seems to have much more sway within the direction of the setting overall than he did even just 5 years ago when Forces was coming out his insight seems to garner respect within SEGA and if that continues I should hope he'll be less hamstrung by their more questionable insistences in the future.

    I think the unification of the brand pillars into the games on the one hand and a true supplementary canon consisting of IDW and Prime on the other will require some consideration to and work with the people stewarding each pillar but is ultimately very possible. In terms of a multimedia canon, Sonic isn't nearly as expansive as Marvel or Star Wars. The setting has enough depth and continuity to sustain a multimedia universe but not so much that it becomes a burden to both readers and writers, where you've got hundreds upon hundreds of issues that already exist, not to mention movies and TV shows. The current IDW setup of one issue per month with some specials here and there and a 4 issue miniseries each year is very manageable and I think Sonic is the perfect series to pull off this kind of thing.
     
  9. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I don't blame Sega for enforcing an unified brand. The old split between Japanese/western canons and the wildly different adaptations led an incredibly fragmented fanbase and a lot of confusion -- much of which permeates to this day. It also felt like the Sonic brand lacked identity, with everyone trying to do their own thing. When they announced the Sonic Boom franchise, my reaction was "Oh boy, have they learned nothing from the past?"
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    The difference with those, however, is that Marvel is not a single united canon: the comics are not the same universe as the movies, and the comics themselves have various different takes and continuities. I assume you mean in the vein of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but then we fall over to Star Wars' issue.

    Star Wars isn't a single character. It is a large galaxy of characters and species that are each doing their own thing. You can have a series like Galaxy of Fear, where you have the brother and sister team fleeing the galaxy spanning Empire, with the rare instance of bumping into the characters from the movies, or in one instance expanding on one character that turned up for a minute. Why? Because it's Star Wars, not The Adventures of Luke Starkiller- er, Skywalker.

    Sonic the Hedgehog, as the series is literally named for him, needs to keep focus on Sonic the Hedgehog. Yes, you can have the odd spin-off like Chaotix and Shadow the Hedgehog, but unless it's specified like that people are gonna go in looking for Sonic as the primary character. Sonic Prime, I expect Sonic to be the focus.

    It also means they'll have to explain when Sonic goes off to do a game in a series, and why the cartoon series ended with him heading to the events of the game, but the comics did the same under very different circumstances, etc. Basically with Sonic as the focus, they'll have to be talking between the different series: Game, TV and Comic, to ensure they don't run into each other and crash.

    Now, if they decide to be experimental again, like if they released a, I dunno, Shadow: Agent of G.U.N. series, then I could see some possibility of it. Of course, they can't use the brand name for spin-offs: Star Wars works since Star Wars covers the ongoing war in the stars, so you can say Star Wars: Rogue Squadron and Star Wars: TIE Fighter, that's fine. Now imagine: Sonic the Hedgehog: Shadow: Agent of G.U.N., and it looks awkward. There's a reason it's Chaotix/Knuckles' Chaotix and not Sonic the Hedgehog: Chaotix, nor Sonic the Hedgehog: Shadow the Hedgehog.

    I would say they could get away with a minor rebranding, but they kind of already burned Sonic Universe as a brand name via the Archie Comic so I don't know what they'd use...

    All in all, we'll just have to see what they'll do.
     
  11. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    The Saint Seiya series uses the name "Saint Seiya" in every spin-off even if Seiya is not there or is not the main character. I think this is not a rigid rule.
     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Never heard of the series, so I don't know what a Saint Seiya is, sorry.

    EDIT: apparently it also goes by Knights of the Zodiac, if Wikipedia is anything to go by...
     
  13. Overlord

    Overlord

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    I clearly need to watch Sonic X again, moreso now that I have subs (I think I watched maybe the last 20 or so episodes almost entirely just in AVI RAW with no way to 100% tell what they were on about, and never saw past like #56 either), as I was entirely unaware of this little nugget at all. How does that square up with Sonic's line in the first episode while sitting on the lamp post about how the stars are the same? Mobius (don't even start) must have some sort of energy field around it that is phase-shifted in such a way that it not only moved the planet out of phase with Earth (so they can BE in the same spot) but also has a time-slowing effect. It also means Mobius is far younger than Earth is (12 times younger, in fact!). A 12-times-younger Earth would still be rocks and steam, never mind having had the time to evolve talking animals.
     
  14. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Yes, in English it goes by that. The original name is Saint Seiya, because Seiya is the main saint (knight, in English) of the story. But it was never only about him in the original manga, and several spin-offs later don't even have him. But the name was kept.

    The legend of Zelda is also a peculiar case because Link is the protagonist, despite the princess has her name in the title.
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It's from when Chris comes through from Earth: he deages as to Mobius, 6 months have passed, but Chris says 6 years passed on Earth.

    So I guess everyone's fears Sonic wasn't coming back were justified as it would have been far longer to the Mobius lot..

    I'll have to look into that at some point then.

    That one's directing attention to the legend, so I'd say it's a pass, much as how Sonic Universe would work as a brand title despite naming Sonic in it.
     
  16. Zephyr

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    Sonic the Hedgehog: Agent Shadow
    Sonic the Hedgehog Presents: Agent Shadow
    Agent Shadow: A Sonic the Hedgehog Story
    Agent Shadow: Explore a New Era of Sonic the Hedgehog's Wizarding World
     
  17. The KKM

    The KKM

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    surely I can't be alone in finding it distasteful exactly BECAUSE of that? I don't want to play the cartoon hedgehog game and be thinking about colonialism, first world-second world-third world paradigm, and how GUN not intervening when the native animals of the islands are attacked parallels multiple real world situations of the UN ignoring "third world" crisis and pleas of help.

    With the logic being two worlds that only special characters can traverse between, you could at least write off the lack of shared society as "well they couldn't go over and help". Now it's an intentional choice to not go over and help, which is worse.
    But hey, this stuff clearly needed to be retconned away rather than just explained.
    I maintain that for all the complaining this thread does, this is exactly what you asked for for years. You wanted retcons and clarity rather than just explaining intent- that's what you're getting for the next decade or so. Enjoy waiting until the 2030s to maybe start seeing this stuff re-retconned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  18. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    Couldn't they put the name of the spin-off as needed, and a line around there that said "Set in the world of Sonic the Hedgehog!", and that's all?

    They were one before the split, and they don't say when the split occurred, so it isn't necessarily like that. But the stars being in the exact same spots... That can be trickier.

    Same here. I don't care about comics at all. Maybe I would have when I was a teenager, but they didn't bring Sonic comics here back then, so it didn't happen.
    I care about game continuity to some extent because there was one at some point (classic games AND their manuals), and another one at some other point (shonen episodes... I mean, games of the adventure era), but otherwise there's no use: it's just an alternate reality per game, year or brainfart, and that's all.

    ...

    Seriously, when Sega themselves insists on the Master Emerald being irrelevant even after Ian remembering them how important it was in the past and how many powers it showed, the only thing I can think is that meme of "Deus Vult! It's time for a fucking crusade!". Bad explanations are one thing, but that's a different question and it's a very recent question to keep in mind. It's not just if the cutscenes of Origins contradict the instruction manuals, it's also they have just re-released the first game in which the Master Emerald showed up and did its main function on screen, yet they go by that statement. I know Sega is a company, not an artist, but, come on.
     
  19. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Is SEGA really trying to care about the franchise and its continuity? Or is it all just an uphill fight in disguise?
    I can only see them as giving little care about it now, when before they gave almost 0 craps about it all... :(
     
  20. The KKM

    The KKM

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    You guys also need to remember you're not getting Sega's direct notes on anything. Just remember the whole "there's no money!" shpiel- Ian said there literally is no money, Evan said money exists but they asked to not call attention to it. Don't take what information you're getting from an unofficial, unrelated, unaligned, side-show podcast by a comic book writer conveying licensor notes in a way that doesn't break him NDA as official statements on anything. "Master Emerald has no power" could be a dozen different things that simply didn't get conveyed right (remember this all has to be translated?) to Ian and then didn't get conveyed right from Ian to podcast.

    Sega did by and large care about canon. There was internal documentation for most of this. They just didn't want to show it publicly. Now it's all getting retconned. That still shows a care for canon, just that someone somewhere internally has been convinced "actually let the PR people take a lead on this". Probably not a coincidence this is all happening a bit after Aaron Webber got kicked up upstairs in the brand hierarchy.