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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. shilz

    shilz

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    I don't think I ever really thought about Two Worlds with that Sonic X detail in mind, but It still doesn't really make sense to me, but mostly because what X did doesn't make sense.

    Sonic and the landmass and people around Eggman's base are what managed to transfer over to "Earth" first, the second Chaos Control brought Mystic Ruins over, then they realized that if they let it stay like that time would freeze so they sent everyone back, and somehow that sent Mystic Ruins and Eggman's base back too?

    If there's anything from X that matches up, it's the vague "ability to go between the worlds" that Sonic supposedly has, because at the end of 51 or 52 or whatever he goes back on his own at Chris' vacation house and takes a month or something before he actually shows back up.

    that is to say it's no help in explaining how things work at all.

    Just another reminder of how little Sonic Team was actually willing to let go of anything for Sonic Boom, if the logic the show runners had to go off of was "Yeah it's exactly like the regular games but it's this specific setting for some reason but also don't bring anything up", I can only imagine what the Rise of Lyric writers had to go through. And they probably didn't even want Shadow!
     
  2. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Huh, I didn’t remember him using those words specifically. But I still don’t think he was talking about the exact beat for beat story rather than the premise (chaos control bringing them to the human world) since there are apparently some difficulties with regards to some of the original characters such as Decoe and Bocoe. There’s also the issue of how the show changed major events to accommodate its characters and even changed some characters themselves like Emerl. And that’s not even getting into the Metarex arc, which clearly wasn’t included in canon. I think there were influences from Sonic X that are thankfully now gone, but the whole series as it was shown on screen? I doubt it.

    Yeah, the Rise of Lyric dev team went through hell. They had the story centered around Sonic’s origins and an ancient hedgehog society and Sega suddenly came in and told them they couldn’t do that and the story had to change. You can see leftovers of the original premise in the game though, such as the hedgehog statues.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2022
  3. BlackHole

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    Honestly, Sonic X is a mess of ideas. For instance it establishes that if something from one world remains in the other, the two worlds then start to remerge.

    So... explain Robotnik. The events of the ARK are on Earth's side of things, which means his family resided on Earth at least one generation ago (his parent from Gerald). That means Robotnik or his parents some how ended up on Mobius*, which means that something from Earth is on Mobius: I think Robotnik confirms his family is from Earth at one point. There was that entire thing about Chris running away with Sonic and that was causing the merge.

    So shouldn't Earth be trying to follow Robotnik to Mobius and cause the worlds to merge?

    EDIT: 6:36


    Dub at least has Robotnik say Earth is where he was born.

    Also, technically Sonic the Hedgehog continuity, it fits. :eng99:

    *Just calling it Mobius as too lazy to type "Sonic's World" every time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  4. Blue Spikeball

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    I don't think they ever stated that just one person remaining on the opposite world would cause the merge. When Sonic became temporarily stranded on Earth thanks to Chris, no one said "Oh no, the worlds will merge after all!" And when Chris went to Sonic's world in season 3, nobody found it worrisome. It's more like having too many people and stuff from one world in the other would fuck things up.

    But yeah, the two worlds thing made a mess out of everything related to Eggman's family and Shadow.
     
  5. BlackHole

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    I'm certain Chuck mentions that they need to get Sonic home as soon as possible, as the worlds are still merging due to Sonic's presence and time will crawl to a halt... which doesn't make sense since Robotnik's over on Mobius, which means it should still be happening, and Robotnik should have remained on Earth...

    Oh no I've gone crosseyed.
     
  6. Only for viewing

    Only for viewing

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    this thread should probably be less arguing about how little sense things make when thought about (which you shouldn't be doing in the first place, these games are carried by aesthetics, gameplay, and atmosphere) and more just discussing intent
     
  7. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I still think the two-worlds concept could work in the games if the anthros had come to Earth thousands of years ago instead of yesterday. But now that even the name Mobius does not belong to a planet but a mountain, I guess there is no possibility of such thing happening.
     
  8. Blue Spikeball

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    Just checked some subs and he actually says:

    "But now... Because of this, Sonic can't go back to his own world. I'm out of ideas. What should we do now?"

    He makes no mention of the merge. It sounds more like he's just worried that now Sonic won't be able to get back to his world and friends.
     
  9. Uhh. They did comment on some things. Sonic Boom started as Sonic Origins. That dealt with time travel to the days where we see younger Robotnik. From there that was shot down by Sega. They reserved the right to any origin stories for themselves. They've likely just been sitting on that for a while anyways. I kinda dislike Origins erasing the Sonic 1 manual and Sega Sonic not being a prequel because that was more depth. Also how the generations Eggman monologue leading to the final boss even being a nice throwback to the manual.

    From there was Synergy. The Unreal Engine next gen game. Playable Perci. Sticks was supposed to be a bigger part of it from the start. Big hub worlds. Then the Sega/Nintendo deal. Though, to note. Through Sega Channel and their comic, it does imply a version of Sticks in the main universe as well.

    Then we get Boom, where they had to more closely tie branding in to an upcoming cartoon show. So characterizations and story was tweaked and we still have concept art, unused dialogue, and developer interviews lending to that fact. They pretty much banished all established Sonic continuity and just dealt with the local islands, and it felt very Crash Bandicoot like. Which Perci also was a Bandicoot I believe. We get minor Nods to continuity with Angel Island, but nothing more. And not even the alternate universes they showed strayed far. Makes me wonder if Prime will bridge the more modern Sonic to Boom at some point.

    Love all of the Lore being dug up in this thread. Feel the need to dig through the Bumblekast faqs and mark out what was in and out of Continuity and when to kind-of contribute if I find time.
     
  10. Linkabel

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    I'm not a big fan of Sonic X at all, but there are some lore stuff that interests me about it.

    I know everyone is focusing on the question if Eggman being from earth can cause the earths merging, but I always wondered how Eggman ended up on Sonic's world and WHEN considering the flow of time is slower there.

    (One month in Sonic's world being a whole year on regular earth)

    Eggman in the Sonic X universe doesn't know he's from earth till the SA2 arc (if I'm remembering correctly in the Japanese version he actually says "I was born in this world") which means he had to arrived in Sonic's world pretty young not to remember.

    So let's say he was just born or was a toddler when the events of the ARK happened. Did his parents escape with him or sent him alone to the other world to avoid getting arrested by the government? Does that mean he's actually younger than he looks?

    Or was he an adult already and lost his memory through some means when arriving to Sonic's world? Remembering just his name, and becoming Eggman as his new identity.

    I know people might think it's a plothole, but I get the feeling that there's actually an answer but it just wasn't addressed in the show.

    There's also the ruins from episode 17 implied to be from the echidnas that had the shovel claws. Even Knuckles is amazed they're on earth. There's even the first Tikal vision in this episode.

    Did the first Chaos Control not only bring Sonic and his friend along with Eggman and his fortress but these ruins as well? Or were they remnants that stayed on earth after the split?

    Does that mean the Perfect Chaos rampage caused the earths to split or did another calamity happened after that?

    There are a lot of tidbits like this throughout the whole show that wouldn't be surprised if they came from Sonic Team and not necessarily the show's story supervisors/writers.
     
  11. Blue Spikeball

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    It's weird. They dropped the reveal that Eggman was from the human world in the Shadow saga and treated it as a mystery, only to never address it again.

    You'd think they would have devoted some episodes (or even a saga) in the second season's last half to exploring the two worlds thing and explaining what's the deal with it, rather than having a bunch of poorly written filler and a half-assed Sonic Battle tie-in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  12. Levi Church

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    I like it when some things are left as mysteries to leave room for speculation. How did Eggman get to Sonic World? Why did Gerald make Shadow a Hedgehog? Where did the Babylonians really come from? Why is Sonic so fast? I feel like a hard answer to any of these would be unsatisfying.
     
  13. Starduster

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    Honestly I think the island explanation for the existence of animals and humans despite the two populations largely never being seen together is perfectly elegant and also really strengthens Eggman's identity as a coloniser.
     
  14. Pengi

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    https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?posts/833511/

    Our own GeneHF also commented on the Sonic bible of that era:

    Note the "somewhat" when it comes to Sonic X.
     
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  15. BlackHole

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    That could also be due to Sonic X's third season taking place on Sonic's World.

    Also, isn't Sonic X effectively actual director's cuts of Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, since it adds cut lines back in? Which is probably why it replaced them as well: I seem to recall that being a thing.

    But honestly, best not to think about it.
     
  16. RDNexus

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    I'd rather not take Sonic X as canon.
    To me, it's an entire can of worms...

    It touched upon stuff cut from SA1&2, but that alone isn't enough to me.
    Hence having said before I'd rather have a new anime, plot closer to the games.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  17. BlackHole

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    Neither would I, but I'd also not like to take Sonic Origins as canon: as keeps getting pointed out, we don't have a choice if they are. If SEGA says it's canon, it's canon.

    Fortunately, in this instance SEGA have backed down and removed Two Worlds, which I think was where the crux came from.

    Eh, a new animé would be the same boat as Sonic X to me. All adaptations of work have their own twist on things, even IDW has it focusing primarily on Sonic Forces' interpretation (who wants to bet the world was back to working as it was within a month, game continuity wise?).
     
  18. Starduster

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    Well, as Iizuka has recently said, there's a desire for unity within Sonic as a brand now. Ian Flynn has been insistent as of late that IDW Sonic *is* mainline Sonic and Wildbrain, when asked whether Prime will be an alternate universe, replied with something to the effect of their only being one Sonic universe (which is untrue and Boom erasure but I'm going to avoid being too facetious and leave that aside). It remains to be seen how closely the pillars will be brought together, but I think the goal is to craft the kind of "supplementary canon" that I've long been advocating for. The games will be the purest source of Sonic, while IDW and Prime can be taken as things that happened but are ultimately not as core to Sonic's story and any conflicts in continuity that come up between the different strands will be resolved on the basis of taking what the games have established as being the highest priority of canon, unless SEGA says otherwise officially (i.e. in scenarios where the games themselves contradict each other, such as Tails not recognising Green Hill in Generations, though I don't know whether that's present in the Japanese script too).

    To demonstrate how this would work, my suggestion is the following: the IDW book was introduced using the setting as it exists within Forces as a base. Overtime, it has developed away from this, with the loose ends of Forces largely having been resolved recently (and I'd say the only reason this took so long is because the Metal Virus wrecked the world all over again) and the status quo largely returning. Now we're focusing on the introduction of Surge and Kit into the setting which is likely going to take us to around the time of or after the release of Frontiers in terms of release dates. Once that arc in IDW is done, I imagine there'll be a timeskip that works around Frontiers, with the game being referenced as having happened by an editorial text box.

    Granted, what I've just said blends liberal amounts of my own interpretation and suggestions, but I hope I've adequately conveyed what I think the unification of Sonic's brand elements is going to mean for continuity, or at least what I want it to end up being, in the event I've misinterpreted what has been said. With Prime in particular, my gut tells me it's going to be a largely standalone story that doesn't make references to recent games all that much and will pretty much be slapped on an indeterminate point on the timeline sometime after the Forces, but that's neither here nor there. In terms of call and response, I think each project will likely have cute references to each other (like Tangle being referenced in TailsTube #1), but ultimately nothing overbearing, allowing casuals to stick to the games while fans of IDW and Prime will be able to see where those projects fit into the continuity.
     
  19. BlackHole

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    Isn't the entire point of Sonic Prime that he's travelling to alternate universes? The Shatterverse? I feel like that kind of defeats that claim...
     
  20. Wraith

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    The only reason I'd be excited for a more unified Sonic brand would be to stop things like the movie from happening, but it's clear that those are going to keep coming out regardless of what SEGA does so it's not as exciting to me as it could be. Who cares if an AU comic comes out a little weird compared to the way Sonic is represented in film, one of the entertainment industries in the world?

    I guess getting stuff closer to the games is nice in it's own way, but comparing the restrictions IDW is under to the way the movies are free to change Sonic's personality is always going to leave a bad taste in my mouth.