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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    It's a funny one, but:
    He was bullied when he was little. Tails' Adventure could be why that stopped.

    I do understand the confusion, though, the way it's written sometimes looks like it stopped when Sonic arrived, but I don't think he can suddenly grow from little to 'big' in the span of, what, a week I think I concluded as a minumum for that? Tails simply wanted to be "cool too!" when he met Sonic, nothing about him getting over or stopping any bullying.
     
  2. Pengi

    Pengi

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    You're not seeing the forest for the trees.

    His Sonic 2 16-bit character profile also says:

    Tails changed because of Sonic. That's his origin story in the 16-bit games.

    Tails Adventures breaks that origin story.
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    In general most of the changes are from a perspective of relevance.

    Sega is treating Sonic 1-CD-2-3K as the Holy Grail of the classic era - which is true - and how everything started. If some tweaks are needed in order to fit all the games in a cohesive timeline, those tweaks need to account that perspective. So if Sonic 1 is the first adventure we know of, then it is now the first adventure ever. If Origins is the whole first saga, then no other game should be placed in between.

    I mean, it makes sense. It's not that I prefer it that way, or even like it that way. I just think it makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  4. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Again, bullied when he was little, not currently. I'm fairly certain it was the timid part that is being referenced by the latter half of the sentence, since the follow-up only mentions the personality shift, nothing about ongoing bullying stopping, and the timid part makes itself distinct with the was before it, instead of sharing the was of the "little".

    "He was bullied by everyone when he was little and timid" would be what I would expect if it was covering both.

    EDIT: Actually why would they specify he was little when he was getting bullied if it was still ongoing? Does that not seem odd to you?

    Now as for the timid thing, he could very well still be timid during the events of Tails' Adventure. Even timid people can step up and be a hero, then go back to being their normal timid selves once the situation is resolved. Hell, funny thing, I'm actually a very timid person, I'll always shy away and clam up around people.

    I disagree. It would be like putting The Clone Wars after Revenge of the Sith because 'relevance'.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  5. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Idk dude, this is more like the outrage SW fans would throw at a new movie for retconning the books they read in the 90s/early 00s.

    Tails Adventures's existence is microscopic to the franchise. The Game Gear games are only a step higher than stuff like Patrol Car or Schoolhouse because they can even be considered for canon at all. And before comparisons to the GBA/DS games starts, those had direct involvement from Sonic Team. Anything outside of their reach is dubious at best, non-canon at worst. We're honestly lucky the GG games are still on the map at all.
     
  6. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    So when Disney declared everything but the movies and Star Wars: Clone Wars as the Legends Universe?
     
  7. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    I get the feeling you didn't like that, either. lol
     
  8. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I thought "well, they've not decanonised them as much as simply declared a new universe, I wonder what we'll get".

    Then we got the Sequel Trilogy.

    So yes, but only after seeing the crap.
     
  9. LockOnTommy11

    LockOnTommy11

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    I like it when characters are suggested to have more than meets the eye, but when it’s never explained. It keeps discussions going, imagination and interest.
     
  10. I view the canon consolidation favorably overall. An official continuity that has been devised based on actual review and discussion while backtracking on elements that the fans have more often than not found unappealing (two worlds, classic dimension) is in my mind a step up from the approach to canon in previous years.

    Of course, not every decision will be viewed positively. Personally, I’d prefer if Sonic had confrontations with Eggman prior to South Island. But I understand the reasoning behind presenting the 1-3K classics as “the beginning” for branding and marketing purposes. In as much as all this matters, I don’t see this as “burning” the continuity. We’re seeing more care and attention to the continuity than perhaps ever before.

    Something too to keep in mind is that the current canon is being established primarily via pronouncement: official to semi-official statements from Sega, Ian, TailsTube, etc. If any of the decisions don’t sit right, one has the option to ignore them. Nothing prevents a person from deciding for themselves that the 8-bit games are placed at X location in the timeline. I confess this was a tactic I used with respect to Two Worlds, a tactic I felt empowered to employ because continuity is fundamentally abstract.

    What’s more, this is all ultimately pretty inconsequential. I love indulging in continuity, and when Two Worlds did reign supreme I rolled my eyes at a conceit I thought was silly. But continuity has nevertheless rarely served an essential role in the Sonic franchise. Obviously it exists and has on occasion informed stories, but the characters and gameplay have always been given more focus than anything kind of canon. We can argue as an intellectual exercise, but in the end does it really matter if Tails Adventure takes place before or after Sonic 2? These are colorful, cartoony games that offer us some entertainment and levity. Their chronological placement is ranked pretty low among aspects that make them meaningful.

    All that is to say I’m cool with most of what Sega’s doing with continuity, but it’s also fine not to approve of any or all of their latest decisions. I’d just encourage people to maintain perspective, and rather than falling into negativity, to find the joy in the franchise in your own way.
     
  11. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I'm gonna say something that I think @BlackHole is going to be pissed off:

    I'm gonna like if they change the islands of the Game Gear games (except Sonic 1 of course) to new ones instead of South Island. There's just too many locations for the same island, and I even guess there is no space for those in the South Island presented in Origins (which is based on GG Sonic 1).

    Just say GG Sonic 2 is set on East Side Island, Triple Trouble in North Island, and let's go.
     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Sonic Triple Trouble refers to "the southern islands", which is distinct from South Island according to Windii on Twitter:

    [​IMG]

    So there's some leeway available for you.

    You would be right I would disagree, but you've got southern islands to work with.
     
  13. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    I'm with BlackHole here, and while I can understand people being less upset or worried about what's going on, I don't have a clue why people don't seem to get his point of view or understand the value of past work. You may not need to go back to those manuals, but you could at least go to the original Sonic Team and ask them which story they wanted to tell with that game, because Sega owns the IP but is that people who worked back then who decided the canon, and this all seems disrespectful to what they did. A lot of people complains about the approach Maekawa took with SA2 making Shonen the Hedgehog, but then agrees when something similar happens now just because they've been disastrous at keeping a decent canon since I can't remember when. I'ts ok if the whole jacket story or Madonna aren't canon, but don't ignore the info from final products and then shoehorn alternate games that actually interfere with the original canon. I hope what Frontiers gives us in terms of continuity is worth this whole mess, because I don't think it is the way it's done without something else to back it up.

    Too late, pal, I said that 200 pages ago and didn't work either.
     
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  14. Pengi

    Pengi

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    You're lawyering. The point of Tails' backstory in Sonic 2 16-bit manual is very clear. Tails was timid bullied child with low self-esteem until he met Sonic.

    If Tails defeated an army single-handedly before he met Sonic, that severely undercuts his backstory and character arc.

    Sonic 2 is a more important game than Tails Adventures. Tails' origin story and character arc are more important than Tails Adventures being a prequel.

    If Tails Adventures' place in the continuity is changed from "before he met Sonic" to "after he met Sonic", the only thing that is lost is a piece of trivia.

    The stories of the Game Gear games were never designed to mesh with the stories of the Sonic Team games, and were made without Sonic Team's direct supervision. They were never previously treated as canon. Bringing them into canon and giving them an official spot in the series' chronology is going to require concessions. They're more likely to retcon details of the 8-bit series to align with the main series than they are to retcon the main series to align with the 8-bit series. They don't want the tail to wag the dog.
     
  15. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    I don't think people here are depreciating past works.
    They exist and gotta be remembered in whatever way.

    But one think is value past games, other thing is try to cram them all into one ultimate continuity.
    Especially when even SEGA cared 0 craps about it back in the day.

    This back-and-forth has gone to heck and back, time and again.
    And even SEGA now, trying to appease some audiences, seems to be treading on thin ice and stumbling here and there.

    I'm of the opinion not all games can fit in one unique continuity.
    Pay heed to those truly relevant and put all others on one or more parallel continuities.

    Sonic Generations helped set a precedent of what could be deemed of one continuity (despite the references to the storybook games and such).
    And this is only an exemple, from back then. Things changed since then...
     
  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I'm pointing out a specific detail. Why are they saying "when he was little" when it was happening a week ago? Did Tails wish on the Ring of Acorns just before the events of the game?

    Concessions such as ignoring their stories entirely to make something up.

    It's easy enough, really, but eh.
     
  17. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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    Sonic the Summer Special said Spinball was canon so I don't question it.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Possibly, but whether Maekawa was taking that story into account or not, I don't think it's fair to him to act like he disregarded everything that came before. He might have tried to do something different with SA2's plot, but he made use of previous lore and continuity. He wrote the characters consistently with SA1. The Chaos Emeralds were a pivotal element of SA2's plot. The Master Emerald's ability to neutralize the Chaos Emeralds as established in SA1 was a plot point in SA2. He even added references where he didn't need to, like using Tails' save of Station Square to explain why he had a Chaos Emerald (he could just have said that he came across it like SA1 did), or referencing plenty of Angel Island lore.
     
  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I must ponder if a companion "Lore Headcanons" thread might be a good idea...
     
  20. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Sonic Adventure 2 did call back to things from Sonic Adventure 1. But I doubt they had anything related to early Sonic 1 concepts in mind.