I think it’s silly to assign any narrative importance to character designs when we had Eggman morphing between a cartoon and strange 2006 poser-model form, Sonic’s height and proportions increasing for the same game then decreasing afterwards, and whatever was going on with the proportions in the Riders games. I think anything outside of wardrobe/hair changes is just a different way of depicting the same characters.
People posted in this thread some Japanese scan from the SA1 era stating that Sonic's new appearance was deliberately designed to look older than his original design. Classic Sonic has also been officially stated to be a younger Sonic from the past more than once, even post-Forces. So I think Starduster is spot on that Modern Sonic's proportions are supposed to depict an older Sonic compared to Classic, while the eye color is just an aesthetical change.
That's another SEGA thing I deem BS. Eggman alone is a clear example the characters had only aesthetic changes. They just look older, they aren't older.
How old is Eggman? Was he already born during Project Shadow? I only remember he used to see Gerald Robotnik as his inspiration.
Hard to say really. He could've known Gerald first hand or could've been raised on idealised stories of the man. At any rate, Eggman looks like he could be anywhere between 40 and 50.
I'm back briefly, just popping my head in to see what's happening and oh lord it got worse... This is ridiculous. It's like saying "Sonic Generations (Blue Adventures) is it's own adventure from Sonic Generations (White Time and Space)"... further needless complication. The difference there is that both Sonic the Hedgehog 2's establish different stories, one of which you can easily place after the other if one were to place them on a timeline and even references an element established in the other... Sonic the Hedgehog (8-Bit) has a recap of Sonic the Hedgehog (Mega Drive)'s plot. But apparently, this is enough justification for them to be different events. So I guess Sonic Generations: White Time and Space is a different birthday to Sonic Generations: Blue Adventures, since they're similarly slightly different plots (Sonic getting to his birthday, and Sonic arriving early, respectively) and different level options (Mushroom Hill Zone instead of Sky Sanctuary Zone). Why does no one remember whichever one is first? Amnesia, the answer to all lore problems... I would agree, but at this point I'm expecting them to claim both are different adventures. I would disagree with this: the comics are their own entity and should remain as such, since that can lead to confusion down the line. Not to mention, if an issue results in the comic's cancellation, such as IDW going bankrupt as an example, then how would that be handled? Would they have another studio take up the reins? Would they decanonise them, removing context for any crossovers that had occurred such as Tangle and Whisper appearing in a sidequest? Of course, considering SEGA's chainsaw approach to the surgery here.... Considering Rocket Metal is Mecha Sonic No. 29... Do you have the guide to hand, I'm curious? What's the going rate that they simply remove it from the canon? Alternatively, it gets the perma-designation of Silver Sonic. I mean, you've seen their current logic for half of these continuity things, right? This is probably the best answer: E-123 Omega, as well as E-100 Alpha, E-101 Beta, E-103 Delta, E-104 Epsilon and E-105 Zeta shows Robotnik does have other robots that just aren't deployed against Sonic, though Sonic at least sees E-100 Alpha, if never actually fights him. The E-121 Phi series further infers this, since we've skipped 16 numbers and skip one more, E-122, for E-123 Omega: either Sonic's fighting E-100s offscreen, or some aren't being deployed against him for one reason or another. Personally, I'd have him as Mk. III: Mk. I - Metal Sonic Mk. II - Mecha Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive)) Mk. III - Mecha Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-Bit)) Mk. IV - Metal Sonic (Sonic Triple Trouble) Mk. V - Mecha Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles) He's smaller, and not even due to console limitations: but he's Sonic size compared to the bigger Mecha Sonic of the Mega Drive game. He's quicker, better replicating Sonic's spindash compared to the Mega Drive version. Really, the only thing is his lack of arms, which is what the chest arm is for and that could be seen as a trap, since it bursts from his chest which is not where you expect arms to be. He's actually the improvement, technologically, compared to the Mega Drive Mecha Sonic when you think about it. I like to think Nightopia and Maginaryworld are connected, the events just don't crossover, like how events on Westside Island won't really be noticed by the residents of South Island, at least until the events get big enough... Indeed: the game takes place in Casinopolis. Considering Sonic Adventure establishes that as the first time in a while the group have met up, the game has to take place after then. It's recycled art, but the game does show Sonic wearing SOAP Shoes, so I like to think it takes place just before Sonic Adventure 2, around when Tails would be rewarded the Chaos Emerald for that game after Station Square finished reconstruction. I would personally say the events actually happened: the reason there's pinball tables of NiGHTS is because he helps people, and those people are carrying his memory forth into the waking world. Claris might write and sing a song about NiGHTS, for instance, and someone who he helped prior might have developed the pinball tables showing the world of Nightopia with NiGHTS over looking it, so he'll always be remembered. As for the Pinball scores, considering the game is about Robotnik conquering Casinopolis and brainwashing Sonic's friends, I would personally write it down as robots or AIs based on their likeness that the others are defeating to get at Sonic. Why would Robotnik pit his own forces against one another? Why would he program E-102 Gamma to destroy his badniks while looking for Froggy? The man enjoys the chaos. It's an interesting take on how to address the continuity issue. They could have also used Mecha Knuckles from Sonic Advance, since that's an established robot doppelganger with an organic 'shell' that looks like the issue in question. Could also be a hologram of Knuckles, which are established to be a thing via Metal Sonic holograms in Sonic the Hedgehog CD. He upgraded himself, which is confirmed by both Sonic Heroes and Sonic Channel. Indeed, easiest answer, though Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is a bit of an issue since you later see Metal Sonic in his classic design in Sonic Heroes, though to the modern redesign debut in Sonic Rivals 2. I have a headcanon to answer this: Metal Sonic, being future tech, has a nanobot repair system, which is also why Metal was so damaged Robotnik had to retrieve the CPUs for Metal Sonic Kai, but later only had to shock him awake to get him back, though obviously still had a lot of damage. The nanobot also 'built' his modern form as he was growing from some future data on Sonic's appearance, but this is only temporary: if he loses too much power, he reverts back to the base-model from Sonic the Hedgehog CD. This is why he appears in his Classic Form in Sonic Heroes. A combination of the purple energy from Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and upgrading himself, Metal Sonic is able to softhack the repair system to allow him to go T-1000 on everyone: Robotnik removes this when bringing him to heel, but later allows does some upgrades due to Nega being a significant issue and Metal Sonic 3.0 posing too big a threat for base-model Metal in Sonic Rivals 2, and Robotnik locks that form in place for future titles. The Metal Sonic in Sonic Adventure? Metal Sonic Kai. Metal Sonic in Sonic Pinball Party? Conserving energy for Sonic Heroes, hence also just doing the pinball instead of fighting Sonic directly and not getting involved with Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Advance 2 (possibly: ongoing Knuckles trickery issue there). Of course, this is all just headcanon and "beautiful speculation" *coughBScough*. Sonic Rivals 2 was the first game with the modern redesign, but they just had to retroactively include it in Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II... that game caused so many issues, they really should have left it as Sonic the Portable. Otherwise, you could have just said Robotnik upgraded Metal Sonic to better combat Metal Sonic 3.0 and be done with it. He is. Sonic the Hedgehog CD concept art: 1931 - If we assume the first game was 1991, then he'd be 60. I'm also aware of Sonic Heroes, before that's brought up, but the Japanese manual does not have ages. Is there anywhere else Robotnik has a profile that people can look into ages for? I'll pop back later today, check and all that. If you want me to head back away, since my attitude hasn't changed, I think SEGA are being fools with all of this, just note it and I'll withdraw once more.
@BlackHole regarding Mecha Knuckles in Triple Trouble 16-bit... Wouldn't Metal Knuckles fit better? Since it usurps Knux's place. And Metal Sonic could be doing its own thing during Chaotix ^^" Metal Knux has yet to be canonized in some place other than R. @Noah Copeland simply used Metal Sonic due to it and the final boss referencing X-treme.
It was more for the fact Mecha Knuckles is the only one with 'skin', so to speak. Metal Knuckles, you can tell right off the bat since he's a robot and has differing proportions, whereas Mecha Knuckles is 1:1, albeit of the Adventure Knuckles design. I suppose you could apply the same 'skin' to Metal Knuckles, though... Yeah, it was a pretty neat reference to Sonic X-Treme. They could've had Metal Sonic merge with whichever Metal Knuckles as well, like a reference to Super Mario Bros. Z's Metallix, had it been included if wanted.
Eh. I don't see what's so hard to accept about that. Some changes could just be due to the new art style (the eyes), with others being in-universe changes (Sonic and his friends being taller). Eggman probably falls in the former. Though I could see Classic Eggy changing his attire and slimming down to his Modern proportions, the rest of his design differences being due to SA1's more detailed art style. Edit - found the scan I mentioned: "We kept the original traits, but raised the age of his appearance..."
hey guys, just popping in to the thread I said I’d leave alone so I can make myself upset about Sega continuing to ignore the old manuals again, don’t mind me (But I jest, I jest) They raised the age of his appearance yet seemingly aged him down up to a year, weirdly. Meanwhile Knuckles aged a year and Amy aged 4. And I’m still waiting for an explanation for why he’s a foot taller in 2006!
It's a combination of both like Blue Spikeball said. Obviously the characters getting eye colors and new wardrobes is a stylistic choice, but the taller model is clearly a conscious attempt at making Sonic seem older (Despite not canonically aging technically, but I can excuse that because hey, he's a cartoon character) The majority of height changes after that, such as the lanky, tall model in 06 I'd just put down to stylistic choice though.
@Blue Spikeball "age of appearance" doesn't equal proper age outright. Each character got redesigned to better suit their official age. Why people insist so hard there was a timeskip between classics and adventure and the characters grew older? It's pretty much only an aesthetic update.
The Mania robots (officially known as Silver Sonic) are absolutely not the same ones as the Sonic 2 8bit Mecha Sonic. 8bMecha has one arm, out of his chest, rockets on the shoulders, and is the same size as Sonic. The Silver Sonic badniks are mass-produced, have two arms, no rockets, and are half Sonic's size. The latter is obviously based on the former, but it's not the same robot.
I don't know why you think I automatically stop receiving any news about the ongoing ridiculousness when I don't interact with the thread. Amazingly enough, I can see the Bumblekast and TailsTube episodes outside the forum, and it still angers me there. I also said I'd leave it alone for some time: it has been some time. If you want me to leave for longer, just say. It's insisted so hard for a couple of reasons: 1. Amy and Tails establish there's been some time since Sonic last saw them, and the manual further confirms this by saying Sonic left for a long trip for a while. It's actually official that there's a notable timeskip: 2. The proportions do lend themselves well to the idea he's aged in some form, and Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Comics) explained the changes with him being hit by a time-beam while holding a Super Emerald in Issue 71, while Amy Rose expressly used the Ring of Acorns to age herself up to her Adventure design in Issue 80. Fans at the time could infer the time-beam aged him up, see what happened with Amy as further evidence, assume the same of the games, and that leaked over into the rest of the fanbase from there. It's hardly a new idea, really.
Well, @BlackHole, right back at you with your Sonic2-Sonic3K time span. That long trip of Sonic, to me, can equal to a couple/few months at best, not more than that. I'll stick stubbornly to just aesthetic changes, not years-long timeskip. Also, I don't give any credit to comics and shows. The games are their own continuity.
And more power to you, absent of solid context permits such changes with ease. However, I was simply explaining the reasoning, I'm unsure why it had to be 'right back at you'? I'm aware of the separate continuities, I did say "[the fans would] assume the same of the games....", not that it was actually the same.
I might've overreacted, sorry ^^" I thought you were pushing your "weeks-long break between Sonic2 & S3K" theory into the break time between S3K & SA1.
It's alright, I'm aware I'm not the easiest person in the world to deal with, especially when I'm either passionate about something or agitated over how it's being handled. Thank you for the apology and I'm sorry I've caused you to reach a point you would react in such a way.
