The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    32 vote(s)
    18.7%
  2. I hate it

    63 vote(s)
    36.8%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    20 vote(s)
    11.7%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    56 vote(s)
    32.7%
  1. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    SEGASonic aside, if the Tails spin-offs can be deemed as post-S3K, they could happen during Chaotix & 3D time.
    Each of the relevant characters at the time would have an exclusive adventure, with 2 of them involving Eggman.
    Are there any indications that the Tails spin-offs synopsis should be seen as happening before Tails met Sonic?

    EDIT: OK, the very synopsis of Tails Adventure state it happened before Sonic2.
    Still, there comes the discrepancies again. Tails is native to Westside Island, AFAIK.
    Why would he move to Cocoa Island and later return to Westside Island, where he was bullied?
    And...wait a second... Tails Skypatrol is AFTER he met Sonic. The synopsis states it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
  2. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Ideally, there shouldn't be too many games between Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Chaotix, since the Newtrogic High Zone's existence is a result of the events of the former.

    They're not planets, they're part of the Death Egg II. At the end of the game the entire thing explodes.

    I don't think that's the case.

    The Eggman character introduction that Sonic Channel posted in December 2021 mentions that Sonic and Eggman had skirmishes before Sonic 1.

    http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicChannel/special/coverstory/20211210_002755/

    Sonic Origins' scripts had probably been long completed by the time of this Sonic Channel post, so this information should probably be considered current.
     
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  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Why would that antagonise me, it's a fair and reasonable explanation as to the why.

    I don't hate different points of view, and as noted it's not like the manuals change all that much. It's the fact the manuals are being outright ignored by SEGA that angers me.

    Indeed. Tails' Skypatrol also takes place at the same time as Sonic Labyrinth:

    I did a quick thing a few pages back where I went through the Game Gear games and checked what is needed specifically before them, if you wish to use that at all.

    Anyway, just answering a couple of things before following orders:
    I'm going to take some time away. It's going to change nothing, I'm not going to hide my feelings on the subject of Sonic Origins or the ongoing "continuity" developments, but at least you'll all not have to put up with it.

    Final thought, have a retcon reason for Sonic Chaos' South Island issue: Robotnik's actions in the prior games (Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-Bit)) damaged South Island and the Chaos Emeralds are 'repairing it' via their established life-giving properties. Robotnik removes the Chaos Emeralds, and it's like ripping stitches on an operation wound before it's healed. Handwave, but lets my headcanon timeline retain it without tying the Chaos Emeralds to the island permanently. Could also say it's Sonic Generations' fault, but I plan to move that back to after Sonic Chaos due to Tails saying it was the third instance of Robotnik's attacks. I mean what I mean when I say I want to retain everything in the manuals.

    Anyway, have fun.
     
  4. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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    24:36
    BowserStudios: Hey ian, just wanted to ask a question in regards to sonic 1 8-bits canonicity. Does the games events coincide with the 16-bit version? Is it even canon to begin with? Somebody else told me that you've already answered this question, but i couldnt for the life of me find it in the Q&A Master List.

    Kyle Crouse: Yeah sorry that happens sometimes.

    Ian Flynn: And thank you for looking at the very least. Um, again I can't get into hard facts about timeline stuff right now but, from my understanding, Sonic 1 (8-bit) is canon but it's it's own adventure.
     
  5. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Very odd but I can see it in a way? For example, Labyrinth is much more submerged than in the 16 bit original, so maybe those switches Sonic pressed changed how the drainage occurs, leading to a higher water level some time after the Mega Drive version.
     
  6. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    I see Flynn's answer as "Sonic1 8-bit counts, but as a parallel variant of Sonic1 16-bit".
    The two come close in many aspects, but diverge the enough to not mesh well together.
     
  7. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    I've been thinking that maybe Sonic Team treats those games the same way animation studios treat festival movies and OVAs.

    I'll give an example of what I'm talking about. Like many others, there was a battle shonen called Saint Seiya that had 3 festival movies and 1 wide release movie.

    Those movies don't really fit into the manga or anime canon since there's no wiggle room for them to happen. Again, this is the case for many anime out there.

    Later in the 2000s they release (for what was at the time) a sequel movie to the manga. The strange thing that in the supplemental and promotional material explaining the world of Saint Seiya they added stuff from those 4 previous movies.

    Later on, they asked someone from Toei during a Con in Latin America and he explained that they did considered those movies canon to Saint Seiya. (And he mentioned other IPs like Dragon Ball as well in this get the same treatment)

    They just occurred "outside of time" but the events do matter and can be called back anytime they need to. (Or being reworked into someone new)

    So I wonder if Sonic Team see certain games this way, just that they occur somewhere after the main games.

    And anything that can contradict the main games can be retconned or explained away as it happened but only within the pocket of its story like those festival movies.
     
  8. big smile

    big smile

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    That's how Sonic Team treats Sonic Colors! The events of the DS version doesn't mesh neatly with the Wii version. Yet some of its exclusive characters like Mother Wisp have popped up in later games. So the DS version is part of the storyline even though it is inconsistent.
     
  9. Well, saw Bumblekast confirmed that MD and GG Sonic 1 were two seperate adventures. Makes sense. As for Mother Wisp, I'm only just playing Team Sonic Racing and besides that, the fact it has both Heroes and Unleashed related tracks would have made Two-Worlds moot three or so odd years ago. I'll assume the multiple platform versions of Unleashed just align too to not hurt my brain. Which like big smile said should straiten out Dimp handheld port events to some degree. I'd think any unreconsilable differences just get shunted to a different universe DC Comics style though. Like Generations 3DS is its own timeline of the 3DS 3D ports, and Dimps games seemingly. The character introductions of Cream, Vanilla, and Blaze all work out for the main Timeline but this seems to just be another timeline branch.
     
  10. Pengi

    Pengi

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    With Sonic Colors, I think it's not even necessarily "both versions happened", so much as it is "either version could have happened". But the version-exclusive Wisps (including Mother Wisp) all exist within the canonical Sonic universe regardless.

    So it's up to fans to decide for themselves whether it's the Wii version that's canonical, or the DS version, or a hybrid of both.

    To use another anime example, it could also be considered something like Macross:

    https://www.decultureshock.com/shoji-kawamori-on-what-is-and-what-is-not-canon/

    But in the case of the 8-bit Sonic 1, the plot is generic enough (Eggman is attacking South Island and seeking the Chaos Emeralds) that it can work as a completely separate set of events to the 16-bit game, a separate story.
     
  11. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Oh... Ohh... OHH... That Kawamori...
    Great logic, IMO. Sometimes, I see stories that way.

    Yet...that only muddles the purpose of people who want concrete/decisive stuff.
    That way, anyone can come up and claim their vision of a story is right and fair.
     
  12. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I don't like that. But I guess, if there's two different versions of Sonic 2, there has to be two versions of Sonic 1.

    I don't want to deviate the topic, but that is long gone. Overture is no longer canon since 2006, when Next Dimension was firstly released.

    I've always assume it's a hybrid of both. I was hoping Colors Ultimate would address that, but...
     
  13. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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  14. Pengi

    Pengi

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    I'm convinced that they're going to fold the IDW series into the video game canon as well. The whole series has been designed so as to mesh with and not contradict the continuity of the game series, and it's available in Japan, America and other territories, so they may as well do.
     
  15. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I wonder how the games would introduce the IDW-exclusive characters. The main cast knows them in the comics but not in the games, and it would be weird if they show up for the first time in some game with no introduction whatsoever.
     
  16. Levi Church

    Levi Church

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    I think it's easier for SEGA to keep IDW in it's own little bubble than to make it a part of the game continuity. Because if Tangle and Whisper show up in a new Sonic game 20 years after the comics started coming out, you would have to go back to these old comics to find out what their backstory is. And yeah you could argue the games already have that problem if you are jumping in with Forces. But at least you can easily watch the older game cutscenes on YouTube or now watch the new movies which are about to introduce Shadow.
     
  17. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Tangle's backstory is that Sonic helped save her village and they became friends. Rough and Tumble's backstory is that they're jerks. For the more complicated characters, there are ways of filling the player in on what their deal is (like Sonic Adventure did with Tails, Knuckles and Amy) without needing the previous material. Even then, I wouldn't expect Belle to show up in many games, just like I don't expect Vanilla the Rabbit to show up in many games.

    In the here and now, maybe folding IDW into the games' canon would give the graphic novels a sales boost, and generate some buzz when something well received from the comics crosses over into the games.
     
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  18. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    Another factor to consider is that Ian is writing for both Frontiers and IDW. Assuming this is the beginning of a trend with Ian writing for the games, then Ian would have more access to upcoming game storylines and can tie in the comics far better than anything previously seen in the Archie comics. He knows what the story is going for and thus can meld both pillars of the franchise narratively more organically than say Justin Freddy Mendez-Gabrie or Nigel Kitching adapting Sonic Adventure's Story for Archie or Sonic the Comic respectively.
     
  19. Starduster

    Starduster

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    So I'm in the BumbleKast server now and Kyle said earlier today that the games are canon to the comics but the comics aren't canon to the games. That is to say, the comics are supplementary canon that builds off and works around the games, not vice versa. Which is fine, that's enough for me. Granted, I don't think Kyle is privvy to anything significant that we don't already know, so I don't think it rules out a merging of the two narrative pillars in the future, but I'm not about to hold my breath.
     
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  20. RDNexus

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    The Bumblekast server is only to patrons, right?
    I think I checked that some time ago ^^"

    If only folks could get more interesting intel from there...