Feel like fanning some flames: in Sonic Heroes, Robotnik's classic design makes a cameo as the speaker in the Robotnik dummy body Neo Metal Sonic is posing as. Inferring this is how he once appeared, even back then, otherwise he'd just use his standard face.
Interesting take. I never really scrutinised this, I guess I always figured it was just a simple, stylised “puppet” of Eggman, since his logo uses the same moustache shape and I reckon the goggles could’ve been omitted due to just not looking great.
Feel like this warrants the double post for the sake of the bump: So Ian is pretty sure that classic is the past and that Chaotix is canon to it, which does cause headaches with Metal Sonic, BUT if they're doing away with the hard divide between classic and modern, hopefully this will allow more of a blending of those identities in auxiliary media, as in the Archie days. I'd love to see Mighty, Ray, the Hooligans and ESPECIALLY Great Battle Kukku pop up in IDW (which incidentally, Ian has been quite consistent in saying is the same as mainline recently). Look out for a TailsTube episode on Classic Sonic I guess.
Chaotix answers Metal Sonic by having Robotnik build a new frame for him, Metal Sonic Kai. Evidentially something wasn't up to snuff so he retrieved the original frame for repairs. See: headcanon that Metal Sonic is built of Good Future Technology and the Mecha Sonic line are his attempts to replicate as close as possible the original body. It's the Chaotix themselves are the issue, since they're unfamiliar with Robotnik in Sonic Heroes, but this can be retconned into them trying to gauge how much Robotnik remembers them or otherwise trying to annoy him by 'forgetting' they've met before, and the fact he doesn't react clues Vector in there's something more going on. THIS IS NOT THE CANONICAL EXPLANATION, THIS IS HOW I WOULD GO ABOUT RESOLVING THE PLOTHOLES OF A ALL CANON CONTINUITY. There, that should keep people happy.
I'm struggling to think of any explanation that doesn't sound fanony, tbh. Like don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy for the retcon to happen, but I just don't see an elegant way to reconcile the Chaotix having fought Eggman before and them seemingly not recognising him, with the most damning line being Charmy's "Who's that?". I guess the most reasonable explanation would be that the Chaotix just simply only knew him as Robotnik up to now (since he only formalises the Eggman moniker come Adventure 2) and they've been on many adventures between now and then, but it does seem odd that a detective agency wouldn't recognise a person of high interest as someone they've fought before, or that he fairly recently began addressing himself under a new name...
Oh, it's more than that: as they fight the Egg Albatross, Espio explains who Robotnik is to Vector, and Vector still doesn't seem to know who he is. 7:40 Vector (end of fight): Heh! Still dunno much 'bout ya, Doctor, but you're just a nobody to me! Also, he's been using Eggman since the start in the Japanese Manual canon, so that's unlikely. It's why I'm opting to explain it as them being deliberately dense to coax a reaction. Kind of curious as to how Espio knew of Robotnik while the others didn't, could also say Knuckles and Espio were the two who actually dealt with Robotnik during Chaotix while the others were attending to other things. EDIT: THIS IS HEADCANON, NOT CANON. STOP THE TYPING.
Can we headcanonically assume that it was Metal Sonic, and not Eggman, who captured Charmy Bee in Chaotix?
I wouldn't mind if so, since we never really get a gauge on their knowledge of Metal Sonic. Headcanonically, of course.
True enough but we’re seeing that canon is in a state of flux right now and we’re not really sure what’s fair game. The Japanese version of TailsTube #2 reaffirmed the Robotnik name as being canon in Japan as well as in the West and that Eggman was Sonic’s own coinage, even playing the same scene from Adventure of Robotnik referring to himself as such. I think you raise a good point but unfortunately the meganerds like us are really exploring these retcons to their boundaries and finding minutia that SEGA either hasn’t accounted for or hasn’t been able to clarify yet. I imagine something like this is going to be solved through inference once we have further information.
Or they could hire me and I can sort out the entire canon in about 10 minutes I joke, I don't think they'd hire me.
They were going to hire you but then they saw you placing Triple Trouble before S3K and they gave up on.
Hey, I will continue to argue that's the best position for it. It's the only place where Knuckles is a stranger, thinks Sonic is a supervillain and Robotnik is in hiding while developing a superweapon. I suppose a more apt term would be 'interquel', since I don't think it takes place before Sonic the Hedgehog 3's story, but in that few days period of the Death Egg crash and the main game. But otherwise, it's the only place where we can get the least amount of retcons. But that's not here nor there, lest another argument start.
Just got an email from my uncle who works at SEGA. Cybershell was just hired as the new Sonic lore fact checker. Sorry BlackHole.
Curses, that man gets everything. While I'm here without doubleposting, I would like to suggest a small change to the English language to help save confusion: the separation of meanings of Retcon into Retcon and Revcon. Retcon: Retroactive Continuity: additional details to past events in the continuity that do not change the letter of events, but change the context surrounding them. Example: Darth Vader revealed to be Luke Skywalker's father, which retcons the references to Luke's father prior. Revcon: Revised Continuity: a complete change to the events of established continuity in favour of new details therein. Example: Robotnik landing in the Hidden Palace Zone and seeing the Master Emerald prior to the events of Sonic the Hedgehog 3, as opposed to never seeing it prior to his attack on the Hidden Palace Zone. Just a suggestion, might save us some confusion down the line.
I suggest differently. Revcon: Revelation Continuity: additional details to past events in the continuity that do not change the letter of events, but change the context surrounding them. Example: Darth Vader revealed to be Luke Skywalker's father, which retcons the references to Luke's father prior. Retcon: Retroactive Continuity: a complete change to the events of established continuity in favour of new details therein. Example: Robotnik landing in the Hidden Palace Zone and seeing the Master Emerald prior to the events of Sonic the Hedgehog 3, as opposed to never seeing it prior to his attack on the Hidden Palace Zone.
