don't click here

The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    Or unlucky, depending on how close to the town the island could've fallen...

    Actually, scratch that. By 2:21, one can see there's more houses by the sides of the ski track.
     
  2. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    4,831
    431
    63
    England
    Complaining
    That's also an option, but so is most of Station Square drowning when Perfect Chaos attacks: it's more likely those implications are going to be quietly ignored :V

    Also, man, Sonic Adventure has a massive death toll that's never addressed... half a town and a city...

    (I am joking, I'm well aware we don't know what exactly is going on with the Ice Cap Town.)
     
  3. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

    Better than Sonic Genesis... Member
    454
    178
    43
    Where are we getting the idea that SA1's Ice Cap is in the mystic Ruins rather than Angel Island? Whenever you talk to one of the expedition team near the cliff face, he comments that the "mountain" appeared overnight and that it's soil is similar to the Mystic Ruins but different. There's also a texture at the foot of this "mountain" that shows where Angel Island makes contact with the ground and the cavern you enter leads directly to the Master Emerald Shrine after passing the entrance to Ice Cap. Pretty sure it's meant to be the same place from S3&K.
     
  4. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Is there an official explanation of why Angel Island can sometimes fall on the ocean and sometimes on SA1's territory?

    I mean, originally Angel Island was there, so why did it fall at the ocean during S3K? If the island is orbiting something, so it could fall pretty much anywhere, how did it fall exactly where it once belonged in SA1?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  5. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    1,787
    575
    93
    Maybe the Death Egg crash landing on Angel Island between S2 and S3K pushed it away from the continent, and it later went back to its original position? It's not like the Death Egg would have fallen in a straight line, it had to have had horizontal momentum as well.
     
  6. Starduster

    Starduster

    Sonic Retro's resident IDW slut Member
    1,371
    884
    93
    Britain
    Art...always art...
    Well, Adventure is one of the games I'm not so familiar with, I've only played through it once, so my memory is spotty on stuff like NPC dialogue.
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    4,831
    431
    63
    England
    Complaining
    Because it didn't. The Master Emerald Shrine would be outside the ruins of the Echidna capital, not facing the ocean. Knuckles has to actively dig himself a tunnel to get out of the island.

    I'm kind of curious, though: does their Earth make note of the waterfalls coming from Angel Island? I feel like I'd notice of a waterfall was passing overhead... Headcanoning such instances of the waterfalls passing overhead are called Angel's Tears now...
     
  8. Starduster

    Starduster

    Sonic Retro's resident IDW slut Member
    1,371
    884
    93
    Britain
    Art...always art...
    Imagine just vibing in the Mystic Ruins as your day is suddenly interrupted by tens of cubic metres of water just crashing down on your ass.
     
  9. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    1,787
    575
    93
    NPC dialogue in Station Square treats the ski slope area in IceCap as being well-known and having been around for quite some time, and there is the aforementioned town at the end. So I understand that a portion of IceCap's last section is in Mystic Ruins as people suggested.
     
  10. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    4,831
    431
    63
    England
    Complaining
    Do you have this and where I can locate it so I can check the Japanese as well?
     
  11. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    Angel Island was supposed to be hidden among the clouds before the Death Egg crashed on it, those could be taken as a really heavy rain.

    But I suppose the water levitates and hovers back to the island and the land absorbs it from below instead of above. If an island can fly and the fallen water belongs to it, why not?
     
  12. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    1,787
    575
    93
    Sorry, can't help you. But there was an NPC lady that said something along the lines of "There is so much to do in Station Square!" and gave various examples, including visiting the ski slope in Mystic Ruins. IIRC, there was also a floating monitor advertising it.
     
  13. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    Member
    1,787
    575
    93
    Warning: Long post and headcanoning ahead.

    Recently, I've been looking into Unleashed's whole Gaia business, and noticed that the Gaia Temples had more similarities to the Sky Sanctuary than I previously realized. Have people done these comparisons before?

    For starters, both have the "ancient temple filled with greenery" look to them:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Both have flying capabilities:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The Gaia Temples' insides also have certain similarities to Hidden Palace, which is connected to Sky Sanctuary via teleporters and is thus implied to be related to it. For instance, they both have murals with a stylized depiction of a heroic figure with a glowing aura (Super Sonic/Light Gaia) facing an evil bigger figure (Eggman's mech/Dark Gaia):
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    It all seems to be suggesting some kind of connection between the Gaia Temples and Sky Sanctuary to me.

    Generations' depiction of Sky Sanctuary added even more similarities. For starters, it made it white like the Gaia Temples as opposed to yellow. It also gave it sections with a "blocky" look to them ala the Gaia Temples:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As well as dark sections with glowing markings, suggesting some kind of mechanism using an ancient advanced technology:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Could Sky Santuary be connected to the Gaia Temples?


    I'm positing the theory that Sky Sanctuary and Hidden Palace were actually built by the same people as the Gaia Temples, predating Angel Island's creation by millennia.

    They were likely discovered and claimed by the Knuckles Clan much later, by which point the original civilization was long gone. Or maybe said civilization was the Knuckles Clan's ancestors? This is supported by the fact that both civilizations were implied to have lived all over the land at one point, judging from the Gaia Temples in Unleashed and the Knuckles Clan's pedestals in SA2.

    Either way, further evidence to Sky Sanctuary's connection to the Gaia Temple's builders could be Generations adding what seems to be sun symbols:
    [​IMG]
    Which could be a reference to Light Gaia, often associated with light, daytime and the sun.

    The Japanese S&K manual also calls Sky Sanctuary a temple:
    https://greenyvertekins.tumblr.com/.../hi-sorry-to-bother-you-but-i-wonder-if-there

    There is also the apparent connection between Sky Sanctuary (floating ruins high in the sky) and Hidden Palace (a palace hidden deep underground), which parallels the fact Gaia Temples are associated with the land (and are half-buried) while also having flying capabilities.

    In addition, Hidden Palace and Sky Sanctuary don't look like something that would have been built by the Knuckles Clan. Compare them to their post-SA1 Mayan-esque architecture as seen in Lost World, Chaos Angel and their city. Generations' reimagining of Sky Sanctuary could have made it closer to Lost World and such. Instead it made it more different, and closer to the Gaia Temples. Most notably, Generations' implication that Sky Sanctuary uses some kind of lost ancient technology is at odds with the Knuckles Clan we've seen, which were shown to be tribal people with nothing resembling advanced technology on sight. And lastly, there is the problem with Hidden Palace having a whole Emerald Altar. It wouldn't have made sense for the Knuckles Clan to build it, as they never had access to the full emerald set. Before Chaos' rampage, there was the barrier blocking them off the emeralds. After it, they had access to the Master Emerald, but the Chaos Emeralds were lost. They weren't planning to gather them and bring them back either. This would explain all these inconsistencies away.


    So what was Sky Sanctuary's relation to the Gaia Temples, assuming they were indeed built by the same people? I can theorize three possible answers:

    1) Sky Sanctuary was an 8th Gaia Temple and part of Gaia Colossus. Unfortunately it was destroyed in S3K, so Chip wasn't able to summon it at the end of Unleashed. This would explain why he needed Sonic's help to defeat Dark Gaia, even though he should have faced this one multiple times in the past.

    Also, in the same way that the other seven Gaia Temples used the Chaos Emeralds' energies as power source, Sky Sanctuary used the Master Emerald's energy. However, the ME wasn't stored within Sky Sanctuary, but within Hidden Palace, which would channel its energy into it. This was done to avoid bringing the ME near the Chaos Emeralds upon assembling the Gaia Colossus and risking them cancelling each other out (as happened when Knuckles brought the Emeralds to Angel Island in SA1). This would also explain how the Sky Sanctuary was airborne in S3K (even when Angel Island was on the sea) despite not having a Master Emerald of its own to lift it.

    2) Or maybe Sky Sanctuary was a safe haven where people would take refuge during Dark Gaia's rampages. That's why it floated in the sky, to protect its inhabitants from Dark Gaia's quakes and havoc. They would avoid extinction by migrating to Sky Sanctuary when Dark Gaia awoke, and return to the land after this one went back to sleep.

    3) Or it might have been simply an ancient floating city where the ancient civilization lived. Once again, it was airborne to keep them safe from Dark Gaia.


    (Sorry about the double post, but I figured it would be ok since it's been over a day since the last one?)
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    4,831
    431
    63
    England
    Complaining
    It's an interesting connection idea, though I imagine if the intention was there, they'd have the sun medal designs on the floor:

    [​IMG]

    Hmm, I wonder what Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) continuity issue I should look into next...
     
  15. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    18:04
    - In the 06 section the sonic Encyclo-speed-is was the line "Silver and blaze return to "their" future, where Blaze seals iblis inside herself and lost to another dimension meant to confirm that blaze was originally from silvers future but was transported to the sol dimension and reincarnated as their princess?

    - No, but I understand why you might read it that way. It was meant more that they returned to their time as was presented within the game. We have no context of the Sol Dimension in 06. It's just Blaze and Silver in the future. So when I say 'they return to their future' it's insofar as they return to their setting, what we know within the context of that game.




    29:04
    - I saw that the Flicky Island will appear in Origins and I had a doubt. Is Sonic 3D Blast canon? I like the game, even if it doesn't add much to the lore in general, but I wanted to get rid of the doubt

    - Yeah, it's canon.


     
  16. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    *Plot twist*
    Sonic not becoming super using the seven Chaos Emeralds is canon (director's cut is an unofficial update). Also, having the final fight in space without being super is also canon.

    Next thing we'll know is Frontiers is a direct sequel to this game (in my opinion, it's at least its spiritual successor).
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    4,831
    431
    63
    England
    Complaining
    So Sonic Origins' cutscenes have come out. I'll spoil everything from here for anyone who wants to go in blind.

    Just as I feared, they've not even bothered looking at the manuals.



    While I could possibly say the manual stories of Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Hedgehog 2 take place (mostly) before the animations, so:

    Sonic the Hedgehog Manual
    Cutscene

    and

    Sonic the Hedgehog 2
    Manual Story First Half, up to "It was then that Miles started chasing after Sonic all day."
    Cutscene
    Remaining amount of the manual.

    But Sonic the Hedgehog 3's doesn't even try. Robotnik lands right in the Hidden Palace Zone, sees the Master Emerald outright, and it's there he meets Knuckles.
    So yeah, not considering these canon over the original stories. They're good artwork, but is it really so hard to actually respect the original stories?

    I'll otherwise wait and see if there's any I'm missing though.
     
  18. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    As I mentioned on the Sonic Origins thread, it seems to me they went majorly with the western manuals' synopsis.
    Which is sad in my book, since it was a good chance to build up plot and lore lost to time because SEGA cares not.
     
  19. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I prefer not to look at the cutscenes yet, but I don't mind changing S3's manual story because it makes not much sense.

    The Chaos Emeralds weren't there, that part is nonsense.
    (yeah yeah, there were a different set of emeralds in each island back then, yeah yeah)
     
  20. Starduster

    Starduster

    Sonic Retro's resident IDW slut Member
    1,371
    884
    93
    Britain
    Art...always art...
    Yeah, the Sonic 3 intro seems to be the way it is out of practicality and adapting for the new state of the setting. It's no longer possible for the Chaos Emeralds to have been on Angel Island since Sonic has them in the intro. Perhaps they could've had a cut of animation of Eggman noticing the Master Emerald's signal and mistaking it for the Chaos Emeralds', but perhaps that would've killed the pace of the animation and would've required the animation team to create art for a whole other environment that maybe just wasn't an economical use of their resources.